Reply to pitch a tent

Can you pitch a tent any where along the trail?

You are NOT allowed to camp anywhere on the trail, it is a state park that closes at dusk. Click on 'Trip Planner' above and select 'Camping' for a list of camping options next to the trail.

If you get off the trail in a wooded area without much noise, light, fire or posted private land signs, you may be good, dude. Stay zipped up or up off the ground though or you will have unwanted friends.

Random, that is irresponsible advice at the very best. If one were to get off the trail, one would be trespassing, posted signs or not. Your unwanted friends might well be wearing badges and bad attitudes. Or even worse, they could be the landowners and bad attitude would not come close to describing their feelings about your presence. William, this has all been gone over before in other posts. Please do not listen to those that advise you to break the law. Look for and find the legal areas to camp. There are plenty and it keeps the arguments of those that still oppose the trail to a minimum. And your $%^ out of jail or the morgue.

Agree with Bluffton Doug: Rogue camping is a bad deal on the Katy. Don't do it. Use Trip Planner part of this website for places to camp.

But that doesn't mean you need a campsite. On several occasions I have stopped and asked people if it was OK if I pitched my tent under a tree in their yard, and they said yes. The conversation usually starts something like this: "Do you you anywhere I could put up a tent?......" More often than not, people don't care if you put one up, especially if you offer them a little $.

Amen to that Arky. People that would be madder than a wet hen if they discover you as an unwanted guest will often treat you like a VIP simply because you had the courtesy to ASK permission.

There are quite a few obvious campsites along the trail, we used them and some that were just out of sight. No one seemed to mind and the other through bikers we met this summer were all doing the same - we even camped together on occasion.

It's a great ride, but it's still a long trip and you'll need to stealth camp at least a couple of times. Just leave no trace and no one on the trail will care - everyone we spoke to was just curious about how long we were taking to cross it and where we were from.

A wonderful pleasant trip.

See John agrees but I'm not trying to blatantly pitch anywhere. Just any areas where you do not disrupt or violation private property. Stealth pitching can be done if you do not have approved pitching. That's all I'm saying.

Just because someone agrees to help you rob a bank doesn't make it a good idea. There is absolutely no NEED to stealth camp. There are plenty of legal areas to use. Not being discovered by the landowners is not the same as having their approval. Stealth pitching is by definition, violation of private property. Doing so only causes more problems for those that do OBEY the laws. The reason the world keeps being more controlled is because of the few that feel "I don't have to obey those rules, I can do whatever I please without regard for the rights of others". Then when said others get upset we end up with more laws and restrictions on all the honest people that have to deal with the damage done by self absorbed jerks. They go back to the city and never see what happens behind them. Then the rest of us on the trail have to deal with the angry landowners that want ALL cyclists kept away because of the behavior of a few!

I have rode the entire trail end to end and back several times. With just a little planning and forethought I was always able to camp legally. In almost all areas of the trail, except the conservation areas, once you are only a few feet off the trail, you are on private property, signs or purple paint or not.

As an owner of farmland I'm always amazed at the way people seem to treat it differently than they would their own property. Where I live we have a lot of problems with folks looking for Indian artifacts. As soon as the first spring rains come I'm guaranteed to have people wandering around the bottom ground. Understand, I've never refused permission to anyone that asked but I have a problem with people just pulling up and treating my property like public land. The way I put it to them before (politely) asking them to leave is; how would you feel if I pulled into your driveway some morning and just started wandering around your yard for a few hours. I'm pretty sure they would call it trespassing and law enforcement would be involved. I guess if I called it "stealth" trespassing it would be ok.

I've have - at times - not understood the attitude of adjacent landowners...but the whole notion of "stealth camping" is RIDICULOUS and WRONG. It is trespassing...and if I was an adjacent landowner...I would be more than pissed. I would call the cops on your sorry butt. As noted earlier...there is no reason for it whatsoever and even if you could come up with a "reason" for it...that wouldn't make it right. It's just WRONG. Stay the heck off private property and don't screw it up for the rest of us who play by the rules and are absolutely thrilled to have the massive amount of public property we love and enjoy called the KATY TRAIL.

Why would someone from out of state feel that they have the right to condone breaking the law in our state?

Bicycle touring invariably requires stealth camping - it happens because of the realities of time, distance, weather and budget. All long distance tourers stealth camp when necessary. All.

A no impact camp setup after dark and brought down before 5am is the standard common way to travel, even on the Katy. A friend of mine who rode the trail last year just lays on his sleeping pad, a sheet of plastic for a blanket if it rains. He's logged trails from New Zealand to Austria and Nova Scotia. You'll find no better respector of the environment then him.

The Katy lacks the facilities required to throughbike without high costs and long detours, until adequate campsites exist people will either stealth camp (as is the norm for all touring bikes), stay away entirely or pay dearly in time and money to weave together shelter far beyond anything a bike tourist needs or can use.

That's the reality here, or even on relatively well supported trails like the Natchez Trace or GIT..

John, you don't get it. My (and I think others) objection to stealth camping is less about "Respecting the environment" and more about respecting other people's property, repecting the rules of the trail, and doing everything we can to make sure that we are welcome guests, not intruders.

The fact of the matter is this: There is no reason to stealth camp on the Katy. There are plenty of spots to camp. It's not good for you, and not good for the rest of us when you stealth camp, or when you encourage others to stealth camp. Find a camping spot, or ask permission. Period.

I've through rode the KATY many times. Never stealth camped, never took any detours, and never paid more than $10 a night. Stealth camping is NOT required to through ride the KATY.

You never paid more than $10 a night, without a detour - on a throughbike down the Katy?

Where did you stay each night?

As to the suggestion that anything less than rigid observance is unacceptable...

I've yet to see more than a single car, and usually not even one of those, going the speed limit on the highway in Missouri. And I watch farmers and locals cross my family's farm here in Illinois, my friend's farm in Wisconsin and another friend's recreational land in Missouri - as well as those who cut thru my own yard here.

But the Katy is the one exception?

Personally, I drive so as not to endanger myself or others - and I camp, whether it be wilderness or bike touring, to be zero-impact, no trace camping.

I absolutely respect the principle involved, even though I may not adhere strictly to the letter of the law that you seek to impose on others.

There are always those who seek to impose their will on others and claim ownership of a resource, the Appalachian Trail is rife with it. Usually people just don't talk about these things as it riles the locals, a needless poke as one is never really engaged with them for long.

I only offered my perspective as it is quite a common one, and in the hope that locals would reconsider what to many is inadequate trail support for throughbikers. There is no clear mapping available for trail camping and I found it no better on the ground.

In the end though it makes little difference to me as I am unlikely to cross it again, my next touring miles are more likely to be on the John Wayne Trail or Kettle Valley Rail Trail...

The Katy is beautiful, I can only hope others will be able to experience given the realities of time & budget that most must live within...

There are two different opinions being expressed here and hopefully both groups can see the difference with some agreement. The in-state KT park travelers who live and ride the KT and know all the camping areas, are even private landowners as noted, have an ownership since it is their land and taxes who support it. The other group is John the touring biker (free rangers) passing through using the KT, not really wanting to jump off and climb around private property with a dog, cooler and camera. If John is riding 100-150 miles a day cross country, looking for public campgrounds sometimes 5 miles off the trail, is not going to be done. I have seen fencing and many posted signs in many private landowner areas. I believe the comments from local people should have more tolerance. My initial comments were not made to inflame people, just state the obvious based on the realities of long distance biking. Bruce, I would not camp along the this trail.

Sedalia - Fairgrounds - $10
New Franklin - Roundhouse - $6
Huntsdale - Katfish Katy's - $10
Easley - Cooper's Landing - $10
Hartsburg - City Park - Free
Tebbets - Turner Shelter - $5
Mokane - City Park - Free
Portland - Rivers's Edge - $10
Augusta - Klondike Park - $10

This isn't any instate/insider information, it is all information I gathered from this site when I first started riding the KATY.

Camping at my place is $7 and that includes a hot shower and cooking facilities. Random what you and John are saying is that because you are just riding through you should be able to go into any state, federal or county park and not have to pay to use the designated campground but are so special that you should be allowed to just set up camp wherever it suits you, even if that is on private property. I have a feeling there are many more people here that disagree with you than agree with you. Especially those adjacent landowners. I would be very interested in knowing how it turns out the first time you are discovered set up on someones property without permission. The plus side would be a few nights free lodging.

I could then justify a trip across the states ripping off restaurants and grocery stores knowing that what I took was low impact and that someone was going to do it anyway. My trash too could just be thrown out along the road or in people's yards because that just happens too. Illinois is a good place to start??

Stealth camping is illegal, irresponsible, and disrespectful. It is also at heart extremely selfish, as it puts the needs of the camper above any others--the private landowner, the other trail users, the MDNR staff who manage the trail. My needs come first, the stealth camper says, be damned to the rest of you.

Nice. I hope you realize by now you are NOT welcome.

I'm glad you all were able to understand the demands of touring a trail with inadequate facilities.

Do you also hold such anger for all those who use both public and private property as a toilet? Or is it just for outsiders who enjoy'd the nature and scenery and wished to support greater accommodation of tourist's throughbiking.

Apparently only those who can guarantee that weather, time and budget will always line up are the only ones welcome.

My prayers are with those caught after dark trying to beat a storm find themselves lost and without a licensed innkeeper at hand.

The few who read this will probably just stay away all together rather than re-enact a weekend from the movie Deliverance...

John, it is obvious that in your world, you are all that matters. Good luck with that.

John have you reread any of your comments? They make no sense at all. To answer one of your questions though, I do understand the needs of touring riders. I am one. So are many of the others that have responded here. Trek has probably ridden more miles in the last year than you have in your life. Not one single time have one of us been caught out late at night with no place to go that was the fault of someone else. Every single time was OUR CHOICE and OUR RESPONSIBLITY to deal with it. We either go to someones house and ASK for permission to stay on their property or we keep moving until we find a place that we are NOT trespassing and/or breaking any laws. This is not holier than thou bull, it is responsible behavior as an intelligent human being with respect for the rights and property of others. Grow UP!

One reason I feel so strongly about this is the history of the trail itself. The railroad easement was "appropriated" you might say by the state, to the quite strenuous objections of many property owners. As the trail was planned there were many who feared crime, vandalism, idiot behavior etc. spawned by the trail. The MDNR took great pains I believe to make it clear that it is PRIVATE PROPERTY off the rail / trail easement and you should not go there.
So use of the trail became an uneasy contract between landowner and user. Stay on the trail and be respectful and all is good. Venture off the trail and be disrespectful and the old wounds will open up.
In my experience the trail has proved itself to be a great resource and I think most adjacent landowners have come to see its value. But a few bad acts, especially one blow-up of some type that would get wide publicity, could change opinions in a hurry.
It is a code that Katy users MUST honor: Stay off private property! For you John or others to dismiss that is as noted irresponsible, disrespectful, and at bottom extremely selfish.
Yes I take offense because you are hurting our trail.

There is no need for Random Pitching or Stealth Camping along the trail. There are plenty of places along the trail to camp legally. This whole string of comments just reinforces my belief that some people think The Rules don't apply to them. That they are Special for some reason and they can do whatever they want, wherever they want to!! Good grief. With a little planning you can ride end to end and have ver few troubles. This is the type of rider that gives the rest of us a bad name with the locals. Please, please, please.....be respectful and enjoy the trail. Don't abuse it, don't take what isn't yours, and don't be a RANDOM PITCHER.

People, whatever happened to being friendly and neighborly? I have a home along the Katy Trail with a huge front yard. Comment one: always be respectful to other people's land and property. It's theirs, not yours. Comment two: be a good neighbor to everyone you meet. If anyone were to ask if they can pitch a tent on my property, I would say "Heck yes, make yourself comfortable but just pick up after yourself and if you have time later come up to the house for a cold beer and something to eat". Karma works both ways!! See ya!

If you read some of the journals on CrazyGuyOnABike.com, there's a lot of stealth camping going on, but it tends to be in wooded areas with lots of public land. While the KATY is wooded, 10 feet off in either direction is probably private land.

Read the journals on the C&O and GAP trails out east. Lots of B&Bs, not a lot of stealth camping going on. The KATY is not that different.

This is an excellent topic. If the trail director or whom ever is reading this. I believe it wouldn't be a bad idea to look at a couple primitive site camp areas along the trail..... Maybe do one as a test??
B&B's can make a simple trip into an expensive trip... Just throwing in my two cents. LoL

Dear Midsouth; Rogersville, Mo.

Please add Mckittrick to possible location for camping. Mile marker 100.8 Your list will be appreciated by the many.
Thanks Rich Lauer

I would think, as Jeff noted, such as benches donated along many carved out areas, donated 1 or 2 primitive camping areas, with park approval, and ultimate maintenance, would be a test to see if it has good use.

There are places to camp along the trail now, provided by private enterprise/municipalities/and the state. What would make you think that test camping spots would be in the right location if what is there now does not work for you? I think it's more of an issue of planning, which some folks don't like to do. Too bad there is not a Hilton every two miles on the interstate highway so we can just stop at a more precise moment for the evening.

Anonymous, the 47 percenters always want more freebies whether it is free water, camping, etc. They don't plan.

I wouldn't call someone who travels across country on human power, on a mimimal budget like most people did 200 years ago a "47-percenter". They are more like 0.0001 percenters. We need these kind of people in America, so don't treat them like trash. Most of us have broken rules and laws, and we all have to face the consequences.

Now that I have another 4 years I may consider giving some more of your Fed money to DNR for a few new camp sites along the trail. Spread the wealth to the KT riders (even the ones who didn't vote for me) and the long distance riders too.

I would be against to anyone camping just anywhere on the Katy Trail. Sure it is a great idea but over time people would just take advantage of it. No toilets, the woods would be used. No trash cans, it would just accumulate along the trail. Camping next to benches, oh NO. If I need those benches to rest and someone is camping there, that is just weird. If the state wants to open campsites then fine, but as it has been said there are places to camp along the trail. If most of you can afford a bike to ride and the gas that gets you to the trail then you can afford a campsite. You can't be that cheap!!

Rode Clinton to Creve Couer Bridge. Camped 1st night Pilot Grove city park. 2nd night Hartsburg. 3rd night Augusta. Never saw a place along the trail that I would want to sleep (poison ivy and other things). Saw some farmhouses that if you got caught out would probably let you camp if you asked first and offered them $10. Note to trailside farms: instead of protesting the trail, hang up a sign offering campsite $10, shower $5, Meals $7.