Katy Trail Forum

Myself and 2 friends are going to do a one-way trip from St Charles to Clinton in 3.5 days of riding this Fall. Does 70ish miles/day seem crazy? We all 3 ride a lot (>3,000 miles/yr). Thoughts?

Crazy? Sure it is, but lots of us do it anyway! I did the trip at about 70mpd last May, but this May I'm going to slow it down a bit and take more pictures and eat more fried food.

If you ride 3000+ miles a year you shouldn't have any problems doing 70 mile days on the Katy. That being said I think doing 70 miles on the KATY is close to doing 80+ on hard surface.

70 a day is easy for someone in shape. All other things being equal, I think 70 on the Katy is easier than a hilly century ride--even loaded with stuff for camping. I ride 12-14mph, so nothing crazy.

May I also suggest you consider "long" and "easy" days instead of 70 mile days. Ride like crazy one day; then eat, drink, take pictures, take side trips, lay in a hammock, or do what makes you happy; then hammer down again. I once did Clinton to St Charles and back in 5 days that way, and it was fun (2 hard days, 1 easy, 1 hard, and 1 easy and home). You could also let Amtrak take you part of the way home for additional adventure.

Thanks for the responses! I really like the idea of riding hard 1 day and taking it easy the next.

A friend and I rode the Katy out and back from Machens last summer. We did five days out and four days back averaging 50 miles per day and 11 mph. We had a relaxing trip enjoying all the Katy has to offer. Our longest day was 68 miles and we still stopped to smell the roses. Enjoy!

When planning your ride, be aware that places to eat are not plentiful along the trail. East side out to Augusta will be fine, after that, not so many. Also, if riding after November 1 most, if not all, trailheads have water turned off. So, plan ahead, carry plenty water and snacks/food.

My daughter and I did Clinton to Machens in 3 days and the thought of the task was much tougher than the task itself. It is so flat. We decided to do our longer ride on day one and shortest on day three given the cumulative wear you might feel everyday. It also allowed us to sleep a little later each day maximizing recuperation time. It was a great ride!

Dogg, as most say push hard the first two days, Hermann (or further), then Boonville, then coast the last days. But have plenty of water, snacks and good beds (no sleeping on the ground for me). Use kevlar or other tire protection. But I would go west to east instead. Have fun.

The problem with doing east to west is you're saving the hardest part of your ride (elevation wise) for the end.

I am planning a Katy ride in May with folks I have ridden with many times before and some have asked about the elevation changes at the western end of the Katy. I crunched the numbers, then compared them with a mountainous section of the Great Allegheny Passage, which we have ridden several times.

These are the Katy numbers.

Clinton 780'

Calhoun 770' - descend 10' in 9.1 miles - 1.099 ft/m

Windsor 890' - climb 120' in 7.5 miles -16 ft/m

Highest Point 955' - climb 65' in 4.2 miles - 15.48ft/m (I'm not certain of the exact location of the highest point, but I think it is near Bryson MO)

Green Ridge 905' - descend 50' in 4.6 miles - 10.87 ft/m

Sedalia 905' - No change, except that the chart indicates a swale between Green Ridge and Sedalia, without giving the elevation of the lowest point.

Clifton City 725' - descend 180' in 13.6 miles - 1.32 ft/m

Pilot Grove 835' - climb 110' in 12.1 miles - 9.09 ft/m

Booneville 615 ' - descend 220' in 11.5 miles - 19.13 ft/m

Here are the GAP numbers from Ohiopyle to Cumberland.



Ohiopyle trailhead 1234'

Confluence at the bridge over the Yough 1329' - climb 95' in 10.3 m - 0.92 ft/m

Rockwood trailhead 1831' - climb 502' in 19 m - 26.4 ft/m

Meyersdale trailhead 2107' - climb 276' in 12m - 23 ft/m

Eastern Continental Divide 2392' - climb 285' in 8.2m - 34.76 ft/m

Frostburg trailhead 1819' - descend 573' in 8.2m - 69.88 ft/m

Cumberland at the towpath - 616' - descend 1203' in 15.5m - 77.6 ft/m

I correct myself. The rate of change from Sedalia to Clifton City is descending at 13.2 ft/m.

FWIW the data I have on the whole trail indicates for the section you have:

Clinton to Lewis - 13.9m, 2.9m
Lewis to Calhoun - 19.8m, 11.3m
Calhoun to Windsor - 47.7m, 26.2m
Windsor to Bryson - 75.1m, 29.2m
Bryson to Green Ridge - 81.1m, 37.4m
Green Ridge to Camp Branch - 83.1, 48m
Camp Branch to Sedalia - 101.3, 75.1
Sedalia to Clifton City - 140, 135
Clifton City to Pilot Grove - 208.9, 190.1
Pilot Grove to Prairie Lick - 217.6, 225.1
Prairie Lick to Boonville - 244.2, 256.3

Of course, as I keep saying, it's an old railroad bed, so by design there isn't going to be much climbing for distance. Basically computes as "flat". Of course, there are those that will complain, but there's ride routes outside of the Katy that will prove them different.

The columns didn't copy. The first one is cumulative ascent, the second is cumulative descent.

You can go here for a graphic illustration of the trails elevation created by mi hermanito.

http://www.bikekatytrail.com/elevations.aspx

Sky, I suspect your data presentation is confusing/misleading. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say:

Start/Finish, total ascent, total descent
Clinton to Lewis - 13.9m, 2.9m
Clinton to Calhoun - 19.8m, 11.3m
Clinton to Windsor - 47.7m, 26.2m
Clinton to Bryson - 75.1m, 29.2m
Clinton to Green Ridge - 81.1m, 37.4m
Clinton to Camp Branch - 83.1, 48m
Clinton to Sedalia - 101.3, 75.1
Clinton to Clifton City - 140, 135
Clinton to Pilot Grove - 208.9, 190.1
Clinton to Prairie Lick - 217.6, 225.1
Clinton to Boonville - 244.2, 256.3

Elevation change??? There is a "little" bit of hill in the Western end of KT, but nothing that should be avoided.

On the mileage chart of this site is an elevation chart you could show them.

That was exactly my point. I had seen some comments on this web site about the hills at the western end and some of the folks in our group asked about them. That is why I included the comparison with the GAP, which we have ridden many times and is also a RR grade, albeit much steeper than the Katy. No Problemo. The only hill of any significance on the GAP is the 23 miles from Cumberland to the Eastern Continental Divide, which gains more than 70 feet per mile.

Paul Toigo: Maybe.

Denbo: Most of the Katy (as most of MO through the center part, I understand there's more serious climbs in the south) is mainly short steep climbs followed by relatively equal descents, which is why I formatted the data the way I did. The numbers I posted above state about 332' of climbing between Clinton and Sedalia (35.6 miles). There are places I can think of where you can hit that number before you reach double-digit mileage. There's very few steady climbs in MO because of the geography (the longest one I'm aware of is 131' over about 0.9 mi), but you can find a few scattered about. Point was, as you state. You'll do more work resisting the limestone on the Katy than you will climbing.

Amen to what Skyguy999 said. Rolling resistance of the limestone is, IMO, the greatest source of resistance on the Katy (and why I like to ride wider tires than most here suggest---700c x 40's that keep me on top). But even the limestone is nothing to complain about, it's just a slower surface than most are accustomed to. I think that as a rule, the Katy surface is easier to ride on than many chip and seal roads.

To that, add that there is usually a level of wind protection (often a great deal of protection) from the vegetation in the railbed, no cars, and no hills: The Katy is my idea of the perfect ride.

Denbo, I'm checking out the GAP & C&O for a ride into DC to meet my wife in late July. Could I ride by myself and stay at hotels & B&Bs along the way without riding for miles off the trail to a hotel the whole way during the busy summer?

DSD, I think you could if that was your priority and you were flexible in how many miles per day you wanted to ride. There are hotels and B&Bs near the trail and I recommend using the appropriate web sites and guide books for details. On our PIT -DCA ride, we stayed at some places that were a few miles from the trail and it was not too much of a problem. We had a support wagon and enough people who were not obsessed with riding every mile to share the driving and used it on a couple occasions to move people and bikes to the hotel or B&B. One thing we did that I would not recommend is taking White's Ferry across the Potomac to stay in Leesburg. That was a mess. If you are riding by yourself, you may need to be able to do some repairs on you bike or be prepared to push it considerable distance on the Towpath. There are some remote sections without cell phone coverage east of Cumberland.

Denbo, I have gone to the similar forum like this one for both trails and I realized the C&O is similar to the towpath canal trails near Chicago (I&M and Hennepin Canal trails) which are pretty unkept for surfaces and isolated for towns and services. I will carry bike tools and provisions but will not have any SAG since my wife will be driving separately to DC. Thanks for the info.

DSD, the good thing about the Towpath is that every mile has a marker and there is never more than 10 miles between a nice campground, with an outhouse, a water pump, a fire ring and a picnic table. The surface is quite a bit different than the GAP and the Katy from what I have seen about the Katy. There is usually lots of deadfall, potholes, roots, rocks and if it rains lots of puddles and mud. It is tough on bikes and people. My brother has had branches break something on his bike twice and we have seen tires take a pounding. In many places the Towpath is just two ruts with grass several inches high in the middle. These ruts will fill with water when it rains. I'm not trying to discourage you, I would do it again, but I want you to be prepared. You might try to match up with someone who is going the same way along the trail for mutual support.

I just remembered to tell you that there is a rock slide closing the trail just east of the Paw Paw Tunnel, requiring a detour. You can walk your bike up what is a hiking trail over the mountain. Is is about a mile and a quarter long, half up half down. This could be a problem with a heavily loaded bike. Check all the web sites for more info.

DSD, If you're planning a C&O and/or GAP trip, be sure to check out BikeCandO.com. It looks and works a lot like this website, with info on both C&O and the GAP. Disclaimer: I run BikeCandO.com, as well as BikeKatyTrail.com.

Happy trails!

DSD, when you check the site Ray mentioned, you will probably see that the final section of the GAP is being completed at this time and will be complete soon, with a grand opening in June. This will allow an easy transition all the way from The Point in Pittsburgh. We were able to do this before the trail completion of this section, because we were traveling with some local people who had knowledge of the area, but that will not be necessary by the time you make the trip. You are traveling at a time when the days will be longer, allowing you flexibility in finding a place to stay near the trail.

I just started planning an autumn ride on the GAP for family and friends and learned that the B&Bs do not want to rent rooms for one night only on weekends from May to the end of October. That will be a problem for a through bike ride if you are traveling on a weekend.

Denbo:

I have ridden the trail end to end, and various parts of it many times. To me there are no "hills" ( I am 63), just gradual changes in elevation in certain sections. The only elevation change that is annoying is heading east from Clifton City to Pilot Grove.

As a follow-up on the C&O comments, I rode it last year after a day-long rain and, yes, the first part out of Cumberland was a muddy mess! The other issue is that the trail is actually quite remote, without all the nice "trail towns" that you find along the GAP. There are few towns convenient to the trail for much of the way, so you will have to plan carefully if you're not camping. And be sure you're able to fix a flat (or two or three) along the way!

Hi everyone,
My husband and I just bought new bikes and got a trailer to pull the kids behind. We are planning on taking them out for maybe an hour to hour and a half ride tomorrow. We are so excited! We won't hit the trail until about 4:00 because he has to work. Can someone please tell me where the best part of the trail would be to do this? We are close to St. Charles, but can drive a bit further if that's a better part of the trail.
Maybe it's all good! I just have no idea. This will be my first Katy experience.

Thanks for your help, everyone.
Sally

We may need more information such as how far do you ride now? 1 hr. or 2 hrs? The construction outside of St. Charles near the bridge maybe choppy. St. Charles to Weldon Springs has some blind crossings. I would go to Defiance since it has a nice trailhead to start and go west to Augusta or Dutzow to get a easy feel for pulling the kids and come back to Defiance. Good start.

Sally, just remember to pad them a little more than you would on pavement, because in a trailer, the Katy is a monotonous rumble with the occasional bump. I know from experience that the Katy will throw up a lot of very fine limestone dust onto/into the trailer, so please seal it up well.

Since you are in Florissant, you might also consider doing one of the many loops over in Madison County (IL), which are mostly asphalt paved.

Well, currently I do spin class one day a week, and run 5 miles 2-3 times/week. But actual bicycling? Well this is new! I'm thinking of knocking out like 20 miles.

I would also recommend the Defiance to Augusta loop. The trail in the St Charles area gets pretty congested on the weekends.

Defiance to Augusta, no question. About 14 miles roundtrip but with a 4 p.m. start you won't want to go much longer. Stop at the Augusta brewery and buy a beer for yourself and a pretzel for the kids, then head back. All good.

Thanks!!!

How did it go Sally? We rode Dutzow to Augusta. Some pretty fierce wind at times but the Katy always makes me happy.