Katy Trail Forum

Check out the State of Missouri Website to participate in a poll about your favorite fall activity on the Katy Trail! To vote, go to www.mo.gov, scroll down the left hand side of the screen, and click on your favorite activity.

Get out and vote!

Looks like there are lots of horse-riders who vote.

Probably a lot of hanging chads in that group.

It appears that some have voted early and often!

So horses being allowed on the section between Tebbetts and Portland really was the proverbial "hoof in the door" for the rest of the trail. Lovely!

I can't see how horses have 300 votes. In all the times I have been on the Katy on my bike I have seen two horses with riders and one pulling an Amish family. I think with that many votes, bikers would be dodging a lot of crap.

Yeah, lets put up a useless poll that lets anyone vote as often as they like.

I agree the poll is absolutely worthless. Let's hope there is no one actually making any decisions based on this useless information.

They opened up the Tebbetts to Portland section to horses on even less public participation. Who knew beforehand about that meeting at the trail to make that change, except the "in the know" horse people.

Call me an alarmist if it pleases you, but this pole is a bit odiferous. Scientific and useful other than appearance, it is not. But it is there for a reason.

Anonymous, the term "horse people" is very offensive, the correct term is "Equestrian Americans".

My favorite Katy Trail activity is rating B&Bs on the forum.

Strangely, bicycling took a BIG jump.... it's just like voting in Haiti!! Vote often!

Google mo.gov, click on mo.gov website, vote, click back. Repeat 300 times, just like the 2 horse riders!

The refresh button is much more efficient - more votes with less clicks.

Now you tell me...after 532 clicks. Just kidding.

I think we should all set up a certain time to all meet on the website for a "click party." It is amazing, while I was looking at the site the bicycling votes went up one percent.

I have over 2,000 miles on the trail and have never seen a horse and rider...yet they have over 660 votes. I would guess that 70-75% of the people I see on the trail are on bikes. The rest is people walking and jogging. All bike riders get your family and friends to vote.

Looks like bicycles are a little ahead! Really, people come from all over the USA and around the world to bike the Katy. We don't need no stinking horses.

I have also logged about 2000 miles on the Katy in the last 4 years and have yet to actually see a horseback rider, although I have seen where they have been...

I don't know what the State of MO were thinking(actually not thinking) when they allowed horses on the Katy. It is about the only trail bicycles have in the state. And people come from around the world to ride the Katy. Bad decision MO. And I for one will not stop to get out of the way of a horse and rider. Human powered vehicles have the right of way. So go and poop on your own property horses!

I just wanted to bring this thread back to the top of the page to make certain everyone remembers to vote. The one horseback rider continues to vote.

The donkeys now have over 1,000 votes. I bet there has not been a dozen different horses on the trail in the past 3 years.

I have been emailing bike riders from everywhere and urging them to vote. It looks like it is working. I am now going to contact bike associations to get their members to vote. Keep voting!

I am glad I checked the forum yesterday. Did not know about this since I had been out of town for a while. I and the group of about 40 riders I ride with have voted and will tell everyone we know to vote also.

This is a silly way to conduct a pole...you have to vote to see the results.

The poll is still up and the one horse rider is still voting. I would love to see these numbers more reflect reality with the horse riders receiving less than 2% of the vote.

The Katy Trail poll has been replaced with a Favorite Thanksgiving Day Food poll. Sad to say "horse" is not a selection. :-)

Anyone.... I have a trip planned and wondering if I can get my bike on the metrolink at the airport in St louis. I will be riding in from the Page st bridge trail head. I've looked at google and I'm comfortable with the street route I planned. Just not sure if the airport will let me access the metrolink carrying a bike in tow??

Haven't had any experience at the airport Metrolink, but it was no problem whatsoever just down the road at Handley Road Station. Took the train from there downtown and caught Amtrak back to Kansas City. Hope other cans give you specific answer about the airport.

Yes, bikes are allowed on Metrolink. No problem.

And at the airport too, sorry. I haven't done it but a friend has.

Fine food and OK service followed by rude HD folks, young and so very cool, that treated a handicapped person like crap--bout 40 on the deck sat and watched without even committing as Harley rider who had blocked us off flipped off our handicapped son---losers!

The Katy Trail is especially beautiful in the winter, no mosquitoes, not too hot.... winter specials at the B&B's Come visit anytime.

I try to avoid meddling in the forum, but I removed the rest of this discussion because it got needlessly nasty. Probably should have done the same thing with that "trail etiquette" discussion last week, but at least that thread has died down.

Not all comments here need to be positive, but let's try and keep it civil. Thanks to everyone for your contributions to the discussions.

Happy trails!

Oh, Ray you can censure us? Some of these strings are better than reality TV. How nasty did it get?

Don, I really try to avoid censoring stuff until people start making personal attacks, etc. Coming on the heels of the "trail etiquette" thread from a couple weeks ago, my tolerance was pretty low.

You'll still find reality TV to be MUCH more entertaining for hair-pulling, nail-scratching, back-stabbing nastiness.

I'll take this Katy Trail comment forum everytime over bad acting by non-actors in TV programs being produced on a low budget, that reaps big budget advertising dollars.

Here, there are real people, with real comments about what they really think, ahhh, mostly. I'm all for keeping the nasty backbiting out, being respectful of others isn't "really" a sign of weakness, it's a sign of maturity.

I must say that some of my posts here have never seen the light of day, I get a little political, and I ain't too bright sometimes and for that, I thank you Ray. :)

You are correct in that many people are pretty excitable and you can push their buttons quite easily on this forum. I just thought it was a little unusual on the trail etiquette post that people can get really irritated, even removed on a forum, so quickly. Just think if they were in person. Not good. Thanks for being the referee and the sense of sanity, Ray.

I hosted a touring bicyclist from warmshowers.com last night who was riding the Katy to Machens going home to Memphis. He left Memphis in June and rode to the San Juan Islands and headed back to Memphis. The point being, I drove him and back to the Katy and we rode together to Matson trail head where we parted ways. But about 200 yards west of the trail head, a van pulled across the trail and completely blocked the trail. When we got closer we saw abot 20 Boy Scouts and 7 adults on bikes. They stated riding 2-3 abreast. When we caught up with them and blew our horns and told them we were passing on their left, they all ignored us and kept riding. Then when we got to the Matson trail head, they gathered around in a circle and blocked the trail again. I told them they should get off the trail and not block it because people where trying to walk and ride past. The Scout Master just ignored me and keep up his talk. If this is the way they are teaching Boy Scouts now, it is pretty terrible. Please, the Katy is not Wal-Mart. Learn trail etiquette before going to the trail. Stay to the right of trail in single file and pass on the left. Also either warn the people you are passing by saying on your left or sound a bell, horn, or anything to let the people know you are passing.

In several thousand miles of riding on the KATY I have way too many similar negative experiences with poorly informed (or downright rude) Scout masters. Ridiculous. (To be fair, not all Scouts I have encountered fit this category, but way too many.)

Evidently, the goal of some Scout masters is to teach their kids that they are the only people on the planet and that everything centers around them. That's useful. NOT!

I really believe most new people to the trail either to walk, run or bike do not know there is actually etiquette or basic traffic type rules. I believe they think it is just a large area gathering park, like the Scoutmaster believed, where if they want to talk or meet or stop on the trail with their bikes parked in the middle of the trail, they just stop. I see it all the time on the Katy Trail. And left passing or moving over in a single line, this is advanced training to these people. I believe there are postings at the trailhead and along the trail that shows these simply rules.

Listen up boys,
There is this thing called THE SCOUT LAW, it has 12 points that a scout is to try to live up to, points 3,4,5,and 6 are; A scout is ... Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind....

That goes for the Scout Master also. But, who knows, maybe these days they don't go for that cornie old "citizen of fine character" stuff.

Hey, at least they didn't spend the weekend playing "kill everybody and everything" computer/video games.

Wow! I thought it was just a random thing. Maybe we should contact the National Boy Scouts and remind them about their own rules...not Wal-Marts! And yes, the rules are posted at each trail head. It is also just plan old common sense. And while I am at it...people...take your damn dogs off the trail before they poop. Or pick it up and get it off the trail. It looked like poop mines for 15 miles saturday morning. Just wait until horses are allowed on the whole trail. Maybe the rude and inconsiderate Scout Masters will fall in the horse poop!

I've had both good an bad experiences with scouts.

The Good: My buddy and I were all set up in Pilot Grove when a group of sbout 50 scouts rolled up in a bus to camp, and get a bike riding badge the next day. I thought "Oh crap..." They turned out to be great. They even shared a hot breakfast with me in the morning.

The Bad: Camping (not on the Katy) when all the kids went to bed, the leaders stayed up talking. One guy had a voice that carried, and carried, and carried. No problem with the kids, but I sure wish that guy would have either shut up, or gone to bed before 2 in the morning.

I know everyone seemed to think the monster bash a couple of weekends ago was great fun, but there were a lot of people on the KATY that day that had no idea how to share the trail with others, let people pass them, let others know they were going to pass by saying "passing on the left" or acting like adults. I know it was supposed to be a fun day, but rude inconsiderate behavior is never fun. I guess bad biking etiquette is a sign of the times, but it just should not be.

I agree Cathy. It seems people are just too into themselves. I guess that is why so many stupid reality TV programs are on the air. It is all about "in your face" nonsense. I don't think you can expect people who will watch "storage wars, pawn shop wars, beard wars, etc" to have consideration for others. I would rather watch dead grass grow! I have also noticed once there are no signs and yellow lines for people to follow, they are completely lost. Be it a trail, shopping center, or the water. Come on people, it is not hard to courteous and respectful to others.

OK, I know scouts (and their leaders) tend to be a little proud of themselves. I once encountered a scouting group camping on Bell Mtn that really seemed to have little care or even awareness that there were others up there with them.

Having said that, the trail is for everyone and the minor inconvenience of having to (egad!) slow down or even stop is just not worth getting worked up about. Jerry, you may know the Washington Riverfront Trail and a bit of controversy brewing over there. People tired of bikers whizzing past at unsafe miles per hour. Bikers tired of dolts who don't understand they should simply "get to the right." Maybe I'm too egalitarian but these trails aren't built and reserved just for us fast riders who know the rules. They're built for everyone, and that includes 2-year olds who can't drive a straight line and old folks who can't hear nor maybe even see you coming. I used to get slightly irritated when I couldn't cruise the Washington trail at 18 mph and not see the Red Sea part for me. Now I yield to the clueless, because it's their trail too.

Chill out. A few Scouts crowding the trail might be thoughtless, boorish and inconsiderate, but maybe a kid or two might come back out the following weekend and learn something.

Hey Hank, I called out over 100 times and blew my horn and the other rider rang his bell. I don't need to chill out. And I can't ride 18 mph on the Katy trail. I tried to explain to the scouts and the scout master about trail etiquette. You really do not understand the situation. Blocking the entire trail with a van for several minutes unloading equipment when the parking lot is just a few feet away. Riding 3-4 abreast and when someone ask you to move over and just being ignored. No, I don't need to chill out. People need to start paying attention and at least try to follow some rules. And they were not 2 years olds but 12-15 year olds and 7 adults. And as far as coming back out next weekend to learn something, I hope it is trail etiquette and being polite in general. It is just palin out rude, inconsiderate, and unresposible the way they acted. And if you condon this kind of behavior, that in itself is kind of sad.

palin? I meant plain.

I don't condone that behavior at all. It IS thoughtless, boorish, inconsiderate, as the kids say FAIL. And as I said, I too have experienced scouts who exhibited this curious scout gene. Maybe it's one of the badges they give: "Inconsiderate behavior in public places." My only point is I'd rather they be on the trail than not on it. And if their idiot scout leader has to park on the trail to unload their bikes, oh well.

I do get tired of some of the uppity talk regarding the Washington Riverfront Trail. I've taken my kids on that trail in training wheels, and yes I watched over them like papa bear to stay to the right but now and then they might have swerved over the line a bit. They learned to bike on that trail, learned to run on that trail. We don't manage the trail for the dude in spandex, we manage for everyone. But yes now and then the grandma convention walks four abreast blocking the trail. As I say I used to get irritated at this and in a small way still do, but frankly I get more irritated by this uppity attitude from the "real" cyclists who snip at anyone who dare get in their way.

I am a 60 year old man just out for the exercise. I do take offense to you calling me a person with an uppity attitude. You don't know me at all. I would like to meet you in person though to finish this discussion. I am the ole gizzer on a cheap dsb Schwinn..it is black an white. If you happen to see me on the trail..just give me a shout. Maybe I can really irritate you then. City slickers and now people have uppity attitudes. And I was talking only about the Katy Trail, not the Washington Riverfront Trail. So I really do not know what you were talking about.

Did I say you are uppity?

Just forget it.

Aww...nothing like a good "pissin' match" (as my grandpa used to call them) to create a little excitement on the Comment Board.

Glad we all care about the KATY. Enjoy gentlemen and ladies.

Yeah that scoutmaster was a jerk for dragging those boys out and trying to do something with them. And their bad behavior slowed everyone down what an entire 60 seconds maybe? Were they wrong and discourteous? You bet. But I'm willing to cut anyone some slack that is willing to try to corral a group of energetic impulsive youngsters. They don't write a handbook for that kind of thing.

Just like some idiot...jumps in with his very limited knowledge of a situation and spouts off. Oh well, I have to ride my bike, a$$wipe.

Well here's a choice. Would I rather share the trail with a profane 60 year old with anger issues or a group of scouts.

Both of you stop it right now! For crying out loud this is a discussion about trail etiquette and you are both being rude. And if either of you says, "He started it!" I'll take your computer and iPhone and send you to your room.

It seems ironic that in a discussion about etiquette and politeness the OP called out another participant to "finish the discussion in person",resorted to name calling and profanity.

Those scouts were in the wrong. No doubt about it. So are family groups that stop for water & snacks spread across the entire trail or let their kids meander and stop without warning to investigate a rock. But I'd rather see them using the trail than not.

I think a little polite education and being a good example can go a long way toward increasing awareness. For a lot of people riding a bike is not regular experience and combining that with trying to control a group of kids might present a handful for them.

I don't see why anyone would park a van across the trail. That is just stupid. But I hate to see this break down into a scout bashing exercise. For years I was involved with scouting including a long stint as Scoutmaster. I was always aware of the impact my energetic little group behaved around others. Did they ever get out of hand? Lots of the time. And I was right there bringing them back into line. I'm sorry the subject Scoutmaster and his adult leaders weren't doing that also. They aren't represent scouting's values well at all and the boy's learned nothing about appropriate behavior from the experience.

Just to be clear in following this drama, was "up yours" the scoutmaster or Jerry? Ha!!!

Shame on you DSD. The dog is asleep! :)

You should got their Troop number and city they were from and posted it. Nothing like giving them their 15 minutes of fame. :)

It happens! So much discussion over one act of possible misintended trail ediquitte. The gavel should come down on this discussion; horrific misdeed intentional or not. Be slow to judge another based on someone elses opinions or observations.

We were traveling the Katy in June. We ended up in McKittrick with plans to camp. The folks at Joey's offered their yard for free but we elected to stay in their B&B. It was great. What hospitality. A great dinner in their kitchen, a cold beer, and good conversation. It was a fine evening on the trail.

Thank you Bob! We hope to see you again soon.

Next spring I am planning on doing a week long, out and back tour of the Katy Trail with a friend. We wanted to get to St. Charles by the end of our third day so we could have a relatively short ride into St. Louis for a day of exploring before we turned around. We plan on camping every single night. The dilemma is that there appears to be no camping (of the tent variety) in St. Charles. There are multiple hotels and an RV park, but, as far as I can tell, no camp sites. Am I missing something or is this really the case?

Did you read what you just wrote? The St. Charles trail is down in the middle of an old part of town, and you want to camp? Sounds like a recipe for trouble at 2:00 a.m. to me. Re-think that dude!

My advice is get a hotel (you'll need a good shower after 3 days anyway), make or find a friend who will let you sleep on his couch, sign up at warmshowers.net, re-think your agenda, or come up with a new plan for staying in St. Charles. Camping in St. Charles is not a good idea if you ask me.

The most convenient camping closest to St. Charles and the Katy is probably Klondike Park(it has showers) at MM64. At MM43(Page Avenue) is where you could cross over into St. Louis County. I have seen groups camping at MM40 at Frontier Park in the City of St. Charles before but very doubtful that they would permit individuals to camp there.