Katy Trail Forum

Any comments about the Raccoon River Valley or Neal Smith Trails in Des Moines IA?

I have never been to those trails. However, I have been to the Wabash Trace Nature Trail that runs for about 65 miles in SW Iowa. It reminds me a lot of the Katy Trail section Boonville to Clinton where you get away from the river and have steeper grades. There are small sections around a few of the towns that are paved but the surface is similar to the Katy although generally a little less compacted.

On Sept. 15, they are running a 1/2 and full marathon on it from Malvern, Imogene, and Shenandoah, IA, which they hope to turn into an annual event. I will be there and would really like to see a similar event on the Katy someday.

Thanks SteveK, I also looked up the Wabash and was looking to see if it had any food along the way or lodging close to the ends.

I found fewer services in general along the Wabash than for many sections of the KATY. There was NOTHING opened in Blanchard (on the south end of the Wabash) when a buddy and I rode in there one Saturday afternoon about 1pm

Shenendoah has lots of services. We rode off the trail briefly and found all kinds of food and resupply (including a big Wal-Mart) if you need it. We ate at Subway, but there were MANY options there.

Also discovered that in the fall there are LOTS of walnuts on the trail. Had a few exciting times as we hit walnuts and the front wheel "jumped" a bit to one side or the other.

We stayed at a motel in Omaha before launching our ride from the north end of the Wabash.

Hope this is useful.

THanks but still looking about the Raccoon River Valley or Neal Smith.

I ride the Waukee to Redfield part of the Raccoon River Trail often and have ridden the whole trail several times...what info do you need? Or you could check out www.raccoonrivervalleytrail.org

We are in Missouri and looking for a weekend ride. Which end is best for lodging and food? Can there be overnight parking? Is there food/drink/water available in the towns along the trail? I have checked out the website and printed the map. Just looking for some personal opinions. Thanks Mark.

I would do Rocheport to Hartsburg and back. No problem finding food and water on the stretch plus it's one of the prettiest sections.

Pam:

If I ride the whole trail I ride from Waukee to Jefferson and then back the next day...if you just want a short ride out then back Waukee to Redfield or a longer then go to Panora...this is best section of trail IMO...Waukee is a decent sized suburb of Des Moines with lots of places for food and water. Overnight parking at the trail head should be okay but I've never done that but I have seen cars parked there at all hours(late evenings and early mornings). Looking at the map I disagree a little with the water availability in some of the towns. Ortonville...no. The depot in Redfield is hit or miss when its open...been by several times its not open:( the rest is accurate. Food/Restaurants/Conveience is available in Waukee, Adel, Redfield Panora Yale and Jefferson. Jefferson has opened a camping site at the trail head but I haven't used it yet so I can't say anything about the accommodations. More trees along the Waukee to Panora Section more open along the Panora to Jefferson(similar to Clinton to Sedalia of the Katy Trail).

Waukee to Adel is the busiest section of trail and less people as you travel towards Panora...most turn around at Panora.

Hope this helps a little...

Pam:

I also found this video on youtube that's not too bad - hits the high points of trail

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DI3LN7tfVo&feature=related

Jim, Already have done that section many, many times. Ready for something new.

Mark, Thank you very much. That is the information that I was looking for. It is much appreciated it helped a lot.

We've ridden the RRVT a couple of times, once on the hybrids and once on the tandem road bike. It is somewhat different than the Katy both in that it's paved and its proximity to such a large cycling population in Des Moines. As mentioned the route between Waukee and Panora is busy, with road bike riders from the Des Moines end of the trail. They are a bit faster paced than the majority of the casual Katy riders.

We've parked the car(s) at the trailhead in Waukee overnite and not had any problems doing so. The restaurant just to the west side of the trail in Panora is a popular bike stop.

We are in St. Joe and have found it easy to leave of a morning and drive to Waukee and then ride to Jefferson for the nite, returning the next day. It's an easy weekend trip and would be from Independence too.

There are lodging options in Jefferson as well as several restaurants, and a grocery store within easy riding distance. There's an ad on the RRVT website for Trailside Lodging. We've stayed in their "Little House on Russell" a couple of times. It is a one bedroom house with a twin in the living room. It's just a few blocks ride to the main street with restaurants and a few blocks further north to the grocery store. We rolled into the grocery store on the tandem last year, did our shopping and walked outside and pointed to the rear panniers and told the carry out boy to just put the grocery bags in the trunk. He said Okay and then just stood there and looked at us like we were nuts as he watched us fill the panniers with the grocery items and ride off.

The RRVT is a very well kept trail. We found the Wabash Trace mentioned in an earlier post to be pretty run down. Only did the drive for that trail once and then moved on. The High Trestle Trail west out of Ankeny is a good paved trail that is worth the trip also.

Thanks Trek and Mark, now these are the things I have been looking for. I'm also looking at the High Trestle for an out and back. I just asked my husband about taking an extra day to do both. After doing the whole Katy Trail in June,and bits and pieces of it last year, we are just itching to do another trail in September. We have the Little Blue Trace in Independence and that seems lame now after the Katy. I see that the RRVT starts in Clive IA, and you both talk about starting in Waukee. Was there a certain reason why? Thanks again

The Raccoon Valley Trail lacks dedicated trail parking east of Waukee and the trail east of that point is a wide sidewalk on US 6. Have you check the trail website at www.raccoonrivervalleytrail.org/

It is a well maintained paved trail with a mix of farmland and woodland scenery once you get west of Waukee. There is a $2 a day user fee. By some point in 2013, a paved rail trail between Waukee, Perry, and Herndon will be completed so someone will be able to do a loop trail ride.

Yes Greg I have been to the website. That is how I found it. I found a youtube.com clip of the trail, each town, stop and conditions. I think we decided we are doing it. We found lodging in Clive and Jefferson. The next day we will do an out and back of the High Trestle. THANKS ALL

Good decision Pam. I hope you both enjoy each of those as much as we did.

Pam:

The RRVT does go to Western Edge of Clive then there is a connector trail to the Clive Green Belt Trail which an excellent trail to ride...with even more trees/canopy but is very winding and I mean winding. The design was set-up to prevent people from riding their bikes too fast on it. It can be extremely busy during the 'workout hours' in the morning and evenings. The Greenbelt Trail goes through Windsor Heights and part of Des Moines and then connects to the Bill Riley Trail in Waterworks Park and eventually connects to the Great Western Trail which travels South to Martensdale. All are great trails but I understand if you don't have time to see them all...just wanted to explain the RRVT connection to Clive. Have a great trip...

Thanks Mark. I saw on google maps the RRTV running into another trail and we can get to the hotel from it.
Next question, is there only one parking spot for the High Trestle or does anyone have a secret spot you want to let me in on?

No problem Pam....just paying it forward for all the hospitality I received down in Missouri while riding the Katy Trail. Can't help you on the parking for the Trestle Trail, that trail has been on my to do list but haven't been...

We parked at the trailhead in Madrid. It's on the south side of town on the east side of the highway. It's a short ride west of Madrid to the trestle so we did an out and back from the parking lot and after lunch we rode an out and back toward Ankeny. There is a restaurant/bar just across from the trail at the Madrid trailhead that was a popular bike stop.

Thanks Trek, the map doesn't designate a parking area there. That sounds like a better parking area cause when we finish our out and back we can eat there before we start driving back to Independence.
THIS IS WHY I LOVE THIS FORUM.

I am not trying to be mean, I am just passing along what my guests tell me. I have a B&B at the end of the trail in St Charles, they tell me there are to many signs in some of the B&B's on the trail, one actually says "NO THROWING UP IN THE ROOM" you will have to clean it up and you will be asked to leave. Some of the hosts at the B&B's act as if it is an inconvence to wait on the guests. In Augusta on 4th of July only one restaurant was open and they said there were no services for the 4 surrounding towns, not even any water. I know everyone wants to be at home on the holidays, but if you have a business your guests and customers deserve SERVICE....I'm just saying

So it's okay to throw up in the Lococco House. Good information. Thanks.

I was SUPER mad when I was deined excess to the restroom due to my service dog. The owner stopped me on the way in and said "unless it was leading an obvious blind person" dogs where not allowed.

And you needed your dog in the restroom with you because.......???????????????????

I don't know why the OP needed the dog but service dogs are used for a variety of reasons and not just for the blind. For example they can be there for assistance to people that are unsteady on their feet; they can be used for early detection of siezures. A person shouldn't really have to explain why.

I agree...ArkyKenny...nor anyone else...needs to know a thing about why. If it's a service dog...it's a service dog.

OK. Why did the servcie dog go into the bathroom? Here is your chance to enlighten me.

Did you read the part where it was not obvious to the manager of the restaurant that person was bringing a service dog into the bathroom? Every service dog I've ever seen has had a special harness and something to indicate that it was a service dog. Nor have I ever seen or heard of anyone with a sevice dog EVER being denied the ability to use it as such. People aren't that ignorant. Nor do they don't want the lawsuits. So, I doubt that someone would deny access to the bathroom by someone with a service dog if it was clearly marked as such.

The manager apparently had reason to believe it was a pet (in the absence of the dog being clearly marked as a service animal?). Given public health issues, conforming to health code for restaurants, etc. is also part of his concern, so if he thought it was a pet, it would have been right for him to ask questions.

I have 3 rescue dogs that I care for very much, so don't think of me as a hater. That said, why can't the manager deny someone from bringing their pet with them into a bathroom, if he had reason to beleve that was the case? I'd love to hear from someone who is not ANNOYnoumous

Where are the other posts? All I saw were 2 posts and they said nothing about the dog not wearing a harness indicating they were a service dog. If that is missing then I agree the OP has no right to complain. So are we ANNOYnoumous because we disagreed with you or because our posts are anonymous because if you think signing ArkyKenny is somehow not anonymous and a higher road well....

http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), privately owned businesses that serve the public, such as restaurants, hotels, retail stores, taxicabs, theaters, concert halls, and sports facilities, are prohibited from discriminating against individuals with disabilities.

Ladynjbuckner indicated it's a service dog, not a pet. If the business owner indeed indicated it can't be present "unless it was leading an obvious blind person," it would appear that he/she is indeed "that ignorant," since that clearly doesn't begin to cover the roles of service dogs.

Owning several dogs gives your argument no additional weight. Demanding to know why a disabled person needs a service dog in the bathroom makes your argument less credible. Perhaps one day you'll encounter a disability that requires you to change your bathroom routine, and perhaps you'll be glad to discuss the details with strangers?

If the facts of the situation are misrepresented, then this may not be so cut-and-dried. But if the original post is accurate, the business owner made a serious mistake.

Just out of curiosity, how in the world do you ride a bicycle with a service dog?

And how is this post related to the Katy trail anyway?

The Katy Trail is used by walkers and hikers as well as bike riders. Let's all try to be a bit more tolerant. You can use a service dog (or other animal) for any number of reasons. Having a service dog (or animal) on the Katy Trail is not a far-fetched idea. The trail is for ALL to use and enjoy. Not just bike riders!

True, but how does this post relate to the Katy? She SAYS this event happened to her SOMEWHERE. She does not however, say where. I suspect that is because she did not actually have this experience but rather has plagiarized an article about a woman that has retinosa pigmentosa and was asked to take her dog out of a clothing store she was shopping in. An owner of a business CAN ask what the dog has been trained to do to assist and what assistance it is offering. If the animal is not performing the specified act they can be asked to leave. The ADA was not written to be a blanket coverage for people with pets that wish to have them with them at all times.

We took a great ride from Clifton City to Boonville-stopping in at Pilot Grove for refueling.
This route is definitley uphill but a very steady grade - just gear down a little and beautiful riding along the way.
We swear that the grade continued to climb well beyond the I-70 bridge and then dropped in to Boonville the last few miles - we really enjoyed the sites along the way and we only saw 1 other biker the entire trip - we are looking forward to doing this stretch again.

Actually it's mostly uphill grade from Cliffton City to Pilot Grove and downhill on to Boonville. Lard Hill is the nice long downhill into Boonville.

I'd have to disagree about the downhill from Pilot Grove to Boonville. Lard Hill is only a mile or so before you hit Boonville.

If you look at the elevation chart you will see that Pilot Grove is around 835 ft. and Boonville is around 610 ft elevation. So, there is a little over 200 ft decline into Boonville. The last long downhill as you approach the Boonville trailhead is Lard Hill.

The elevation chart only shows elevation for each city, not what lies in between. I have told many that the path between Pilot Grove and Boonville feels uphill both ways. I think the high point in there is the big pipe tunnel. Am always thankful when we come up on the tunnel.

By KATY Trail standards I think the whole doggone trail from Clinton to Boonville is pretty "lumpy."

It certainly feels like there are a whole lot of grades in that "third" of the trail in comparison to the middle or eastern "thirds".

Despite those grades...I love riding any and all of it. What an amazing resource.

We rode Clinton to Boonville recently and really enjoyed the grades actually. Many of them are very subtle, you actually feel them before you really see them. Approaching Pilot Grove some turn into actual "hills." They can be quite deceiving though. The hill ("descent") into Boonville was very rewarding for us, having started in Clinton that morning.

I was absolutely enthralled with the whole Clinton to Boonville section, had never rode it before. Can't wait to do it again.

I've been told it's up hill both ways.

The Sedailia to Boonville section, and particularly Clifton City to Pilot Grove is the most underrated section of the trail as far as I'm concerned. I ride it a lot, and I love it. In my mind's eye,I have no problem picturing a steam powered locomotive plodding along through the middle of nowhere, Missouri. Tree tunnels, wildlife, rivers, hill cut-throughs, old railroad signage, remnants of old railroad towns, etc. only make the experience all the better.

Riding Clifton City to Boonville to me always seems steeper than riding the other direction. That said, it seems uphill either way to about Pilot Grove, then downhill either way from Pilot Grove.

Don't miss this section of the trail!

True to what everyone else has said, Dolores and Virgil are amazing hosts. Could have talked with them for hours. It is good people like them that built this country. The B&B was comfortable, the food delicious, and the service outstanding. I'd also recommend the Pilot Grove city pool for a great place to cool off. It's just off the trail.

We had a very enjoyable (and restful!) stay at the Georgetown Country View Estates after a rough 50 miles on the Katy Trail. My husband and I were warmly welcomed by the Kimbroughs. They had offered to pick us up at the Katy Trail, but we opted to go ahead and ride the pleasant 3.8 miles from the trail to their house. It was a straight shot on Grand from the trail head at Katy Park. The room was very nice and clean, and the private bathroom was huge plus! Very quiet. The pool and hot tub also felt nice after such a hot day on the trail. We were served a very nice hot breakfast the following morning. We would highly recommend staying here!

Oh, and I forgot to mention: they have an ice machine! We loved being able to fill up our bottles and Camelbak before leaving in the morning.

Don't let the ride off the trail to this B&B give you second thoughts about staying here, it is well worth the easy ride over. Thom is the best! He knows how to make you feel like you never want to leave. He cleaned our filthy bikes, filled and chilled our water bottles and had everything out and ready to go the next morning. The accommodations are extremely clean and comfortable. Breakfast was delicious. The best hot chocolate I've ever had. Thanks Thom for the wonderful stay and taking such good care of some tired, wet and dirty bikers!

The positive review is good to hear. I'll add it to others I've heard. I'll be staying there tomorrow.

Cliff Manor is a good stay. If you have the upstairs room on the north, there is a good view of the river, capital, etc. The capital is just a few blocks to the east as well as a few good eating establishments such as Ari's and Madison's.