Katy Trail Forum

I just happened to strike up a conversation with a Union Pacific official last evening. We discussed several railroad-related issues including steam excursions etc. When I brought up the subject of the Katy Trail, specifically my plea to save the bridge over the Missouri River in Booneville (the implications of which are well known to most of you and discussed elsewhere on this site), he was quite firm in his conviction that the Railroad really needs the bridge elsewhere to double track a mainline and it sounded to me like there was no further decision to be made at least from his point of view. Interestingly enough, he did make the comment that the piers would be left, implying that they could be used for another bridge. I have seen proposals to convert the existing bridge into a bike/pedestrian bridge but am curious about the concept of building a new one on the existing piers. Has anyone seen or heard of any plans for such? If such a bridge was a lighter weight bridge for bike/pedestrians only, would that violate the intact rail corridor concept that seems to be a key legal point for the Katy? Or does the presence of the piers (under a lighter bridge)and thus the possibility of rebuilding a railroad bridge preserve the corridor? Anyway, I probably don’t have any new information here and this likely sounds boring but since there is a chance the trail could go away, I was wondering if anyone has any insight into this.

The KATY Trail...boring....not at all. If I read the missive correctly Union Pacific wants to use the bridge as a railroad bridge? If so how about a rail WITH Trail or in other words, will a bike pathway/walkway be an impossibility on the existing bridge? A new bridge on existing pilings, well the first thing I think of is river barge traffic...will this be an issue with a new bridge?? The Pfluger Bridge in Austin, TX. going across the Colorado River and which is a dedicated "hike & bike" bridge cost 7 mil...it was a bit more I believe than was needed, but now we're talking going across the Mighty Mo...one has to ask where is this money coming from?? If UP isn't going to use the current bridge....why demolish it?? What am I missing here. Good on ya MLH for engaging in a conversation about such a sensitive subject with a principle personality...you must have superb people skills. Mark of the Dalton Boys

Mark, the problem is that the railroad wants to remove the bridge structure from its current location, and re-use at a different point somewhere downstream (i.e. take it off the pilings and, I suppose, float it down to its new home). They determined that relocating the bridge structure would cost the railroad less than building a new bridge at the new site. Unfortunately moving the bridge would create a break in the old "banked" railroad right-of-way that serves as the legal basis for the Katy Trail. Without a doubt, this would lead to legal challenges from some of the landowners along the trail who fought the trail's existence in the first place. It really could spell the end of the Katy Trail.

MLH's idea about re-using these supports for a new bridge is interesting. It would probably cost more to build a new lighter bridge than to refurbish the existing one for pedestrian/bike use, but I suppose that's the next option if the railroad and governor win this battle. As MLH said, the key question is whether or not a new bridge would fit into the "railbank" that the trail is based on. I'm sure there will be lawyers arguing that it does not.

For anyone who wants more details on this issue, probably the best source of info is the Missouri Bike Federation website.

I supposed I should be partially grateful that a bridge is getting "recycled"... god knows what goes on in the corporate mind of Union Pacific. I was unaware of their desire to put the bridge somewhere else, but rather thought they wanted to tear down/demolish the current bridge. I see the point now and agree with the likely premise that legal question could be raised to the detriment of the KATY. The longest rail trail in the nation deserves the best of considerations, and being roughly 85 miles or so from the MO./KS. border certainly deserves to be finished and "border to border" status achieved. Ugh, I'm getting a headache. The idea of using existing piles is indeed noteworthy, and I would think (not being an engineer) that a cost effective plan for a bridge could be do-able. Thanks for the clarification...Thanks for all that you do...Mark of the Dalton Boys

I can't believe what a dunce I am for not thinking about the barge traffic, hence the current bridge being left in the raised position. Good thinking Mark. That brings up the next question: if the current bridge was modified for the Katy Trail, how would the up down thing work? Is it controlled via radio by the barge captain? Could someone be riding or walking (or napping) on the middle section when a barge comes? That sounds like a fun ride. Are modern barges lower in profile and what are the clearances needed? Obviously the existing piers would have to be extended for a new pedestrian bridge ($$$). The latter would have to humped like the highway bridge which would rule out future rail use.

In the proposals that I've heard, the middle section would be left permanently in the raised position. So conversion to a bike/ped bridge would involve building some kind of ramps up to the elevated section. Sounds pretty cool, and it would provide a nice little hill workout on an otherwise flat trail!

Thanks for the clarification Ray. As I look at my photo of the railroad bridge taken from the highway bridge. The middle section isn't actually raised that far currently and thus those ramps wouldn't be that severe (but I may have to get a third chain ring anyway, egad). And if that's all the height needed for a pedestrian/bike bridge, the piers wouldn't have to be extended that far after all (but still $$$ for the whole project)

For anyone else who may be reading this thread, here's what it looks like

Permanently raised middle section kind of like the Florida Highway that goes all the way to Key West. Those "humps" accomodate seagoing cargo & container ships....why would it not accomodate lower profile barges with tugs??? That would be something...boy!! Mark of the Dalton Boys

FWIW, UP wants to use this bridge to create a double line for the Osage River crossing about 8 miles east of Jefferson City.



Ironically, if the KATY survives the anticipated legal challenge of moving this bridge, it will enhance the trail's popularity. The completion of UPs double line across the state of Missouri will allow Amtrak to finally run on schedule.

Union Pacific saves $10 million by moving this bridge. But at what cost?



The people who use the KATY Trail, and the people who have invested their lives into building businesses along the trail stand to lose what they love.



If the articles I've read, I dont remember seeing a time line on when UP wanted to move the bridge, does anyone have that info?

If the superstructure is moved, expect the piers to come down. The Corps of Engineers has done the same at several river crossings including the Chouteau (sp?) in Kansas City and MO-115 in St. Charles. The opening between these piers is too small for their liking on a navigable river.

Is there any update on the status of the bridge? I haven't heard anything in quite some time.

I have been to the Green Ridge Grill several times over the years and it is great. Has one of the best pork tenderloin sandwiches I have ever eaten. One sandwich is enough for two or three people. Good waitresses and funny. Enjoyed it a lot. Would recommend it to any one traveling the Katy Trail or just in the neighborhood for what ever reason. When you see the Casey Convenience store look to the opposite side of the street and the restaurant is just off main on a side street. Ask any one in Green Ridge and they can tell you where it is. These folks deserve your business. Give their Grill a try.

I have been to the Green Ridge Grill several times over the years and it is great. Has one of the best pork tenderloin sandwiches I have ever eaten. One sandwich is enough for two or three people. Good waitresses and funny. Enjoyed it a lot. Would recommend it to any one traveling the Katy Trail or just in the neighborhood for what ever reason. When you see the Casey Convenience store look to the opposite side of the street and the restaurant is just off main on a side street. Ask any one in Green Ridge and they can tell you where it is. These folks deserve your business. Give their Grill a try.

The trail end should NOT be called Machens,the trail end was historically called the Katy-Junction,or more appropriately the Texas Junction; because that is where the MKT RR line forked from the Burlington RR Route.SAY >do you wonder WHY the Federal Government shovels so much money {$21-million +++} into the adjoining Levee repairs and yet YOU can not use the trail on top of it?

Yes-it is your taxpayers money repairing those levees and blow-holes that YOU taxpayers can not ride a bike on.

US GOVERNMENT MONEY rebuilt those Levee sections and you should able to use them too. Politics>the families around the Trail from St. Charles to "Machens" have a grip on St. Charles County Government. The CNCLevee District pay $20,000 dollars each year to lobby politicians (look it up). The handful of local Farmers do NOT want YOU there. They have kept it private for 17 If the Katy Trail was allowed to use sections of the Missouri Levee that YOU taxpayers pay for (after every damaging MO. River flood) YOU could connect to the trail going to Alton. WHY not--RICH FARMERS IN ST. CHARLES COUNTY delaying YOUR trail and NOT letting you use levees YOU paid for to complete. THEY are crony-buddies with the County Exec and State Reps.

Look it up and see WHO it is (ie:the taxpayers) pays for those Missouri River Levees and ask why YOU can't ride to "Machens" yet!

ASK why Consolidated North County Levee District (ie local rich farmers are getting FEDERAL repair money and are still allowed to keep YOU off sections of the Katy Trail paid for with that(YOUR)dollars.

Cronyism , Good-Old-Boy politics is why. Flood money and crop subsidies fill the pockets and trickle to the local fatcat politicians. Those CNCLD folks don't have to loose a lawsuit to keep you off the trail, they simply have a few local politicians who know how to work the FLOOD MONEY.

Well...................

I envy your passion. It's been a long time since I've been able to get myself that worked up over something.

Riding on bike paths on top of levys is less than ideal.....good to get from point to point but thats about it.

If anyone is planning to stay at the Hotel Frederick in Booneville you can get a $50 gift certificate for $15 at the KRCG TV website.



http://krcge.incentrev.com/

Great deal, thanks!

We ate lunch at Abigail's during our Katy Trail ride in October of 2009. We liked it very much. I have a hard time understanding the negative comments by some who have posted. It is a delightful restaurant and, as a small business owner myself, I was impressed with the organization and unique menu presentation. This is not Burger King (thank goodness!). Anyone who has ever worked in a restaurant - at any time and of any kind - should appreciate the effort put forth to make this a wonderful experience, from the ambiance to the selection, and to the service. Nice.

We ate lunch at Abigail's during our Katy Trail ride in October of 2009. We liked it very much. I have a hard time understanding the negative comments by some who have posted. It is a delightful restaurant and, as a small business owner myself, I was impressed with the organization and unique menu presentation. This is not Burger King (thank goodness!). Anyone who has ever worked in a restaurant - at any time and of any kind - should appreciate the effort put forth to make this a wonderful experience, from the ambiance to the selection, and to the service. Nice.

I think most of the complaints are about the temperment of the wait staff. I have eaten there many times and most times it has been an enjoyable experience. There have been times,though, when we have had the distict feeling that they thought they were doing us a favor serving us. It's not a big enough deal to keep us from going back though and the food is good.

I think most of the complaints are about the temperment of the wait staff. I have eaten there many times and most times it has been an enjoyable experience. There have been times,though, when we have had the distict feeling that they thought they were doing us a favor serving us. It's not a big enough deal to keep us from going back though and the food is good.

We stayed at the Hotel Bothwell on our first night riding the Katy Trail in October, 2009. It is a beautiful hotel and the service and amenities were excellent. We rode the train into town with our bicycles, arriving about 8pm (dark), and the staff was wonderful, storing our bikes and making us feel comfortable. Sorry our stay was so short. The town of Sedalia was undergoing some renovation at the time, but it is a pleasant place to visit. Felt welcomed by everyone we encountered - bike shops, coffee shop, and restaurant.

We stayed at the Hotel Bothwell on our first night riding the Katy Trail in October, 2009. It is a beautiful hotel and the service and amenities were excellent. We rode the train into town with our bicycles, arriving about 8pm (dark), and the staff was wonderful, storing our bikes and making us feel comfortable. Sorry our stay was so short. The town of Sedalia was undergoing some renovation at the time, but it is a pleasant place to visit. Felt welcomed by everyone we encountered - bike shops, coffee shop, and restaurant.

This was a wonderful place to dine. The price range on here is way off. Wonderful service, food, and atmosphere. Highly recommend it.

This was a wonderful place to dine. The price range on here is way off. Wonderful service, food, and atmosphere. Highly recommend it.

Thanks Ashley.

Thanks Ashley.

Had visited this restaurant years ago when I first met my wife, was probably under a

different owner/name back then. Took a romantic trip to Augusta this weekend and

wanted to go back to the restaurant we visited so long ago. It was maybe 8pm, a server,

who greeted us at the door after about 5min of waiting went on and on about all of the

people that just "showed up" without reservations (it's Saturday night during the nicest

weekend of the year so far...). We were turned away I suppose due to a lack of

preparedness on the part of the staff. There were several empty tables. Another couple

behind us were turned away as well. Funny thing was when the server first greeted us she

stated she'd go back and check if they could seat us. When she never returned I finally

went looking for her, only to find out the bad news. I guess she wasn't actually going to

come back and just hoped that all of us standing at the door would just go away, I believe

that's called apathy? This should serve as a red flag to the owners/ concerned parties.

Sorry.

Had visited this restaurant years ago when I first met my wife, was probably under a

different owner/name back then. Took a romantic trip to Augusta this weekend and

wanted to go back to the restaurant we visited so long ago. It was maybe 8pm, a server,

who greeted us at the door after about 5min of waiting went on and on about all of the

people that just "showed up" without reservations (it's Saturday night during the nicest

weekend of the year so far...). We were turned away I suppose due to a lack of

preparedness on the part of the staff. There were several empty tables. Another couple

behind us were turned away as well. Funny thing was when the server first greeted us she

stated she'd go back and check if they could seat us. When she never returned I finally

went looking for her, only to find out the bad news. I guess she wasn't actually going to

come back and just hoped that all of us standing at the door would just go away, I believe

that's called apathy? This should serve as a red flag to the owners/ concerned parties.

Sorry.

Years ago the restaurant where Cafe Bella is now at, was Ashley Ro se...they have moved and they are now located on Walnut St in Augusta, across from the town square.

Years ago the restaurant where Cafe Bella is now at, was Ashley Ro se...they have moved and they are now located on Walnut St in Augusta, across from the town square.

Has any woman biked the entire length solo? I'm a senior and am considering doing so next summer. Can't find any friends who are interested. That's okay because I enjoy my own company but is the trail safe for a single woman?

I don't think a single woman rider would be any less safe than a male single rider. Riding solo always entails a little more risk - mostly from equipment failures. I say go for it and have fun.

I had a friend from California do the through trip last fall and she was very comfortable. She didn't experience any grief and made a number of friends along the way.

You might want to check out the annual Department of Natural Resources (DNR) group bike ride. They do a good job of planning out the trip, provide SAG support, and you definitely would not be alone.

I've seen many solo females riding various sections of the trail. And, according to several past posts on this site, several have also done it solo from end to end.

You might carry a self-defence mechanism of some kind tho, like, pepper spray. Sometimes a dog or two can be a small problem. Take a camera, too. Good luck!

Go girl.. Shouldn't be a problem.. Be sure you have good tubes recommended by your bike shop for the ride.. You will do fine...

Go for it. People are very helpful on the trail. I rode in early October and met a lady who

had finished the trail and was bicycling to California. Lots of times you won't see many

people on the trail. Plan your ride and ask lots of questions.

I met a lady in her 70's biking the trail by herself. She said her husband was going by car and meeting her in the place of lodging, however. You'll have no problem. If you need a companion, e-mail me. Are you sexy?

Uncalled for Howard.

Everyone and every group has one, apparently Howard is the one.

Proving once again that you can't fix stupid. You can however, delete their comments Ray.

go for it april. enjoy the ride, have fun. the katy is magnificent. tell us about it when you are through, and ignore the idiotic comments.

I (female) did the full trail solo when 50 in '03 and many 1-2 day trips solo since then. Had no problems at all, but do echo the comment re pepper spray for the occasional dog that may be more agressive then friendly (most dogs though just want to run along with your for a bit). The fall is a nice time as there are many other bikers doing the full trail. Also check out the DNR ride in June as noted above. Hubby and I have done it the past 3 years and had a blast. Very well organized, they carry your camping gear, provide breakfast and supper and SAGs along the way. Which ever way you chose to do it, have fun, take enough time to explore along the way, to sit on the benches along the way to enjoy the woods and river, take an extra tube or two, and of course your camera! If any questions, this comment Forum is a wealth of info from riders who have done it every way you could think of!

Probably a misguided attempt at humor. Howard has made positive contributions to several other threads so I''ll reluctantly give him the benefit of the doubt. I''m sure he knows there are many dating websites out there but this is not one of them.

This topic comes up from time to time. Check out these earlier threads:

http://bikekatytrail.com/talk.aspx?thid=1922
http://bikekatytrail.com/talk.aspx?thid=55
http://bikekatytrail.com/talk.aspx?thid=2910
http://bikekatytrail.com/talk.aspx?thid=2842

The consensus seems to be positive. Have fun!

I would be interested to see what the Katy looks like after last week's snow storm. If you skied, hiked, run, built a snowman etc. on the trail and have pictures; it would help cure an old man's cabin fever.

I wish I had a pic...looking forward to see if anyone does. I would love to bike after/during one of the nice fluffy snows, temp only around 30 and no wind. It would be beautiful!

According to the MO Bike Fed the pedestrian/bike lane is soon to be added to the east side of the Missouri river bridge in Jefferson City. This will make it much easier to bike to Jeff City and back without the traffic threat.



http://mobikefed.org/2009/12/katy-trail-connection-to-jefferson-city.php

I went to the public meeting at the North Jefferson site and saw the plans for the bike path. The plans call for a square structure built on the north east side of the bridges consisting of a series of ramps that will bring the path to ground level and then the path will continue on to the boat ramp on the north west side of the bridges and then on to the pavilion on the Katy Trail spur. Each corner of the ramp structure is to have a 15’ x 15’ landing. The people I spoke to at the meeting said the ramp design was developed to 1) cut down on costs – they said running the bike path the full length of the bridge to the first overpass would cost more and 2) slow down bike traffic coming down off the bridge – they felt a straight ramp down from the bridge could result in unsafe high speeds.



Item #2 makes sense to me, but I’m not sure about it costing less in the long run since the ramp structure would be built in an area subject to frequent flooding and I have e-mailed my concerns to MoDOT. But then anything would be better than what is there now.

Terry and Kathy's is an awesome place.

Terry and Kathy's is an awesome place.

Hope the season is finding everyone either out there riding (although cold), or at least wishing they were out there riding. Unfortunately, I'm in the latter group at this time, although reading about everyone elses experiences is a good second best to actually riding!

The Katy is a gift that keeps on giving all year through, year after year. How lucky we are!

well said MAH, i also am in the latter. and a merry christmas and a God filled happy, healthy new year to everyone.

Ho! Ho! Ho! Merry Christmas everybody! Just dropping in while taking a break to enjoy some more cookies and milk, I love those cookies with the green sparkly Christmas trees on them, nice touch. I hope everyone has a wonderful holiday season and a most enjoyable year of cycling, hiking, and jogging the Katy Trail and elsewhere.



Good will to all men!

Merry Christmas! Thanks to everyone for coming to BikeKatyTrail.com, and thanks for all your posts to the Forum, making it always interesting to read. 2010 promises to be a good year for the trail, with expansion underway and the trail's big 20th anniversary going on. Much to be thankful for, much to look forward to.



Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and Happy Trails to you!

Good job Ray. Your web site is well done and a delite.