Katy Trail Forum

Planning an out and back of the Mickelson Trail in SD the first or second week of September. Plan to camp most nights maybe a motel at the turn around in Deadwood. Anyone want to come along?

The Mickelson Trail is awesome! We rode it last summer. I don't know if you have ridden it before, but just a heads up that between Deadwood and Custer there is NO place to get something to eat or drink other than water at the cisterns at the trailheads. Be sure to pack plenty of food and water! The views from the Trail are simply stunning - the uphills are long and the downhill coasting is wonderful! Have fun!!

This will be my first time on the Mickelson. Did you go from Custer to Deadwood in one day or did you stay somewhere in between? We just got back from Idaho where we did the Trail of the Couer d'Alene and the Route of the Hiawatha!

I ran a marathon on the Mickelson in June from Rochford to Deadwood. It was 14 miles slight uphill and then 12 miles mostly downhill. Very scenic, but at that time, the trail was a little rough on the downhill towards Deadwood so you need some good tires there. On the way back, I biked most of the Wabash Trace(another good rail trail) in SW Iowa, and I will be in their marathon mid September of this year.

When we rode the Mickelson a few years back the trail went right through the town of Hill City, north of Custer and south of Deadwood. Plenty of places to eat or get water there. As I recall there was a small restaurant in Rochford also.

It is a great trail with wonderfull scenery. A few cattle gates to go through and cows on the trail. Unlike Lard Hill in Boonville, the long steady uphills are more in the 8 to 9 mile range.

Oops, I meant Hill City. We have friends living in the area - they dropped us off at Deadwood and picked us up in Hill City - it was mostly downhill and fabulous! The Trail map shows elevation which helps to plan your route.

I may be going to Couer d'Alene on a work trip this fall - How was the Trail up there?

We rode 3 different trails up there. First we rode the Centennial Trail, which is all paved. It goes from Spokane to Couer d'Alene it follow the interstate some and along the north end of the lake, mostly flat with some short sections of 8-9% grade. Then we rode the Trail of the Couer d'Alene which is all paved, it is a rail trail so nothing more than 3% grade. It follow along the south end of the lake and other smaller lakes, lots of wild life, we had a bull moose blocking traffic on the trail! Then we rode the Route of the Hiawatha which is all gravel and all downhill at about 2% grade. There are about 10 tunnels and 17 high trestles. The first tunnel is almost 2 miles long and starts in Montana and takes you to Idaho. Some of the trestles are over 200 feet high. The Centennial Trail is about 60 miles long, the Trail of the Couer d'Alene is about 75 miles long, and the Route of the Hiawatha is 16 miles long.

Man oh man I wish I could go with you. Someday.......but for now, its baseball games and family time. Oh yea: there is that work thing too. Have a great time, and let us low how it goes.

Arky, I just retired 3 weeks ago and plan to ride as many rail trails as possible while I'm still able!

Congrats on your retirement MidSouth!

Don't forget to exercise the brain too, so you won't, well ah, FORGET to exercise the brain too. Just read an article about retirement and keeping the brain challenged. I'm at that age.

Enjoy your retirement, sounds like a fun plan!

Darrell, Exercising my brain by devising plans that keep my wife working so that I can afford to play!

MidSouth, since you have the time and you like cycling, I you might consider Big Ride Across America. It is an annual American Lung Assn ride. I did it in 2004. It's 40 riding days with rest days every 4-5 days. It starts in Seattle and ends in Wash DC. It is a life changing ride. And the riders aare not athletes, the average age seems to be 45-55. They also have "Big Ride Pacific Coast" which is 2 weeks and awsome (but lots of hills). I did that one in 2006 and there were 2 guys age 72! I was 45 and thought I was old, but was in the younger half. All you do is ride and pitch your tent, they haul your gear and provide food and water and a bike mechanic travels along. You have to raise a few $$$$ but when frinds find out you are riding this far for a good cause, they chip in.

Chris, I have the time, but I don't really like to ride on the road much, just to get from one rail trail to another.

Ha ha ha! Uh oh! Here comes the "honey do" list MidSouth.

Looks like I will be riding a new bike in South Dakota next month...my new Salsa Vaya should be here by Monday!

MidSouth-----------YES! Congrats! Double wrap the bars, put a Brooks B17 Aged Saddle on it, and have a great time!

Also, I had a little trouble getting the stock wheels to stay true, and ultimately, I switched them out for another pair. I hope you don't have the same problem, but get that figured out before you get to South Dakota. The same thing happened on my Salsa El Mariachi mtb: The bikes are great--really great--but the wheels have been a bit disappointing.

ArkyKenny, mine is coming with DT Swiss x470 rims with Formula hubs, are those the rims you had trouble with? I have already ordered a Selle Anatomica saddle like the one on my 29er. Went with a 26/39 mountain double crankset, I don't have the legs to worry about a big ring.

Yes, the wheelsets with Alex rims and formula hubs gave me trouble on the Vaya 3 AND my El Mariachi 3. I could not keep them true. I'm a 225# dude, so that may be part of the problem.

Eventually, they settled in, and I now use them now on my son's bike, but not before I went on eBay and bought some XT hub/Mavic TN719 wheels. 1 or 2 adjustments on them, and they were fine.

As I said, I hope you don't have the same trouble I had x 2

Re: the Alex/Formula wheelset on the Vaya..... I adjusted them every 100-200 miles for 1500-2000 miles before I bought the new set. They took a long time to settle in but I think they are OK now for the way my son rides--at least good enough. They are also pretty flexy: Not an entirely bad thing on a rough road/path/trail bike, but not a good quality on a MTB. Can you say "Taco"? I trued the MTB set up, and sold them on Craigslist for $80.

ArkyKenny, forgive me if this is a dumb question but when you say your Vaya wheels weren't true what specifically do you mean? I just passed the 1,000 mile mark with mine and I have not noticed any trouble, beyond having to adjust the disk brakes. This I needed to do fairly regularly though over last 100-200 miles it seems I've got them where I want them. As far as "true" rolling I have noticed any problems.

I did put Conti 28's on them recently. A bit faster ride though I'm not sure yet if I prefer them over the stock 37's.

The stock wheels began to "wobble" from side to side--so they would not stay straight. I would put them in a truing stand, tighten/loosen the appropriate spokes to make the wheel straight, and then after 100-200 miles, I'd have to do it again. They were not "out of round", but they would be 1/4" to 1/2" out of true--quite a bit for a guy who likes them dead on.

I am a wheel trueing maniac. There is definitely an art to truing a wheel: I am not great at it, but I am pretty good. My experience with a new set of wheels is that most of the time, a new set of wheels needs to be trued after a few rides, and then once a season or so. I think they should go at least 1000 miles on the road without the need for truing. I have a set of Easton Circuit road wheels that haven't really needed truing in at least 5000 miles. That says a lot for a 1600 gram set of wheels that carry my fat butt around on potholed chip and seal roads.

The stock Vaya wheels did not stay true after multiple truings. Usually that is a problem of spoke tensions not being right, the wheel builder not knowing what they are doing, etc. And usually, I have been able to fix such issues in a truing or two. It took me 5 or so truings on the front wheel, and 10 or so truings on the back wheel to finally get them right. Even so, I'm not sure I really trust them. I finally got them where they stay pretty true on a different bike that doesn't see that much hard use.

I'm also happy to have a good set of aftermarket wheels on my Vaya that stay true, and that I trust. Same goes for the El Mariachi.

1/4" to 1/2" is enough to put the brake on with every revolution. That's quite a lot, even for someone who didn't really care about wheel wobble.

Vayas are disc brake only 29er drop bar touring bikes. The disc brakes allow more tolerance for wheels that are less than true because there are no brakes to rub on the rim. That doesn't mean that I will put up with crooked wheels.

Hank, True refers to the side of a wheel rim rotating on a single plane. If it is out of true one portion (or more) of the rim will deviate from that plane. Dish is the amount of offset from center required for the wheel rim to remain centered on the brakes and frame and allow for the offset of gears on the end of the hub. Out of round is when the rim does not describe a circle with the hub as center during rotation. As Trek mentioned 1/4 to 1/2 inch out of true is a huge amount with 1/2 inch requiring that the brakes have been disconnected and the wheel being on the verge of collapse. The stresses placed on the spoke nipples and head once a wheel has reached this degree of misalignment are immense and catastrophic failure is imminent. Hope this helps.

Long story short on true wheels. I bought a Trek Hybrid 3 or 4 years ago, wheel was out of true after a few rides, many broken spokes followed along with truing the wheel a few times, then of course, I need a new rim. Same thing started happening with the new rim. The bike shop guy finally tells me that the spokes on the new wheels that come from the manufacturer are not as good as the replacement spokes that bike shops typically use. So, I just relace both front and back wheels with all replacement spokes and haven't had any problems with the wheels for over a year. This is something else to be aware of when you are looking at wheels.

Thanks for the info fellas, very helpful. I inspected my Vaya wheels yesterday before and during riding and could detect only the slightest of wobbles. Nothing of any consequence to me, guess I've been lucky. I do continue to have some brake adjustment issues. This was also my first Katy ride with the 28's and they were very nice, no problem. I "discovered" the Creve Couer Lakehouse Cafe for the first time, wow. Great lunch stop.

Hank, if the wheels are new, and if you can see ANY wobble of the rim (not the tire), I suggest you get your wheels checked for trueness. It always amazes me how crooked wheels that appear to be starlight can be. You can also put a pencil or something held against the frame and near the rim to check trueness--that is better than the eyeball test. In any case, don't trust our eyes, and don't let a little wobble turn into a lot of wobble: That will cost you broken spokes and trouble.

Glad you like the 28s. I use mine on the road only and when cutting through on gravel roads to connect to asphalt. As we have discussed here previously, I use 40s when it's wet, and 32s when it's dry on my Vaya.

Next summer, I will be 50 on June 24: I am considering a one day summer solstice attempt on the Katy (as sort of a denial thing I guess). If I do it, I'll probably use my Surly Pacer with Conti 28s. It's good to hear they are working for you.

MidSouth.......Two things: 1) How is the Vaya? 2) how was Mickelson Trail?

You got me interested in the Mickelson and Route of the Hiawatha.

So far the Vaya is great! Put on some wider bars, a longer stem, and a Selle Anatomica saddle. The road BB7 brakes don't seem to have near the stopping power as my mountain BB7 brakes on my Niner, so may look into some zero flex housings when I return from this trip. Put about 200 miles on it along the Frisco Trail so far. Leaving for South Dakota this coming Tuesday morning. Going to spend a couple days in Custer State Park and then start the Mickelson Trail in Edgemont next Saturday morning. Decided to ride the trail out and back, so will do about 220 miles through the Black Hills.

Glad to hear you like the Vaya. I have BB7s on a couple bikes and they have all taken a while to seat---then then work better. You may want to make sure the pads sit flush against the disc. If that doesn't work, consider some aftermarket organic pads---they are very easy to install.

Looking forward to your report from South Dakota. Have fun. Be safe. Don't bonk.

Mickelson Trail ride didn't go so smooth. Decided to start at the southern end and go north, first mistake! Had a rancher stop me and tell me I was going the wrong way, I had just started at the beginning of the trail and only gone a few miles, how did I get lost already, he said your not lost, you are going uphill, nobody rides uphill! After riding uphill for all but about a quarter mile of 23 miles in 97 degree heat, zero shade, fierce winds with a full load of camping gear, cooking gear, food and water in loose gravel and deep sand and going down for the second time I called it quits and illegally camped for the night, I couldn't go on. The next morning it only took me 3 hours to go down to the beginning that took me 9 hours to cover going uphill. The 40c tires on the Vaya where not the best choice for this trail with my fat butt and a full touring load on the bike. I was sinking into the soft stuff too deep and handling was very difficult and I have the scrapes and bruises to prove it! The western South Dakota area and the trail are beautiful and we will go back next year and ride the trail supported on mountain bikes. All the other riders I saw had support vehicles and were riding the different sections of the trail in the predominately downhill direction only with only rain gear and water.

Well that's too bad! There are some long grades going in either direction which is much different than the other rail trails that we've ridden. We took the hybrid bikes up and rode with 700 x 35's and got along okay. Unloaded though.

There is a guidebook about the Mickelson that has trail (elevation charts) and town (services) that may be of value. All is available online too though.

If your plan was to ride the entire trail as an out and back, I would think you started on the right end. I'd much rather be in a basically 100 mile downhill direction for the second half than the first half!

Bummer. I agree with Trek--I'd think you'd want to finish going down hill. Live and learn.

I agree, I was going in the right direction to start an out and back. I just underestimated the heat and loose gravel and sand in the Sheep Canyon area. Next year we won't do an out and back and will do the sections in same direction as the Trail Trek that is put on by the SD Parks Dept. I have the guide book in pdf format.

I was trying to organize a ride on that trail later in September, but my brother could not get a LOA from the War Department. My plan was to ride north to south in 2 days. We had not yet decided whether to camp or stay in a hotel or B&B. We would not have had a support vehicle, but would have had someone drop us off and pick us up. I was wondering about adding an extra day and taking a spur trip to Mt. Rushmore. Has anyone ever done that? What kind of ride would that be?

I am planning on doing a solo ride in mid October. I won't be able to do the whole thing. I am wondering, in your all's opinion, what are the most scenic or the spots that are the "you HAVE to see this!!". Thanks!

My favorite sections: 1) McKittrick to Treloar: Remote, right on the river, 2) Sedalia to Pilot Grove: Tree tunnel.....listen for the old steam train, 3) Rocheport to Hartsburg: Take is slow, talk, read, eat, drink, take a picture, lollygag.

Good choices listed above. I'd put them in a different order, with Rocheport to Hartsburg #1, but can't argue with the selections listed. Enjoy!

Did the Rocheport to Hartsburg ride. About 25 miles one way. It was awesome! My wife saw a mountain lion at the Eagle Bluffs Conservation Area scenic overlook. Stayed at Yayes House in Rocheport and Hartsburg Inn in Hartsburg. Very different B&Bs but both very nice.

Awesome! Thanks so much!! If anyone has anything else to add please do!

I would second all of ArkyKenny's nominations but would add one more: the Weldon Spring area, roughly from Defiance to the 40-64 bridge or thereabouts. Conservation area, very woodsy in character. I've seen coyotes, turkey deer etc.

I will agree on Rocheport-Hartsburg. Not only is the scenery spectacular with the bluffs alongside, but there is the Bur Oak at McBaine and the quirky Cooper's Landing at Easley which is a definite stop.

Will there be fall color tram rides this year? We went last year and want to go and invite friends this year. It was great last year!

Dawn Fredrickson of MO State usually lets us know when the info is up on the website. Last couple of years I think the trams ran 3rd week of October. I agree, it's a great way to see a small part of the Katy, especially if you are bicycle-challenged.

We have never been on the Katy and are thinking about a round-trip day trip starting in St. Charles in late September or October. We would probably stay overnight in St. Charles, so 2 1/2 days would be nice too. Thanks.

Figure out how far you are able or would like to ride in a day, and then look at the mileage chart and pick somewhere to stay or start from that is near that distance. Seems too simple doesn't it.

Thanks for your response. I get that, but I was wondering if there are places in particular that are worth making a destination. Sorry if I wasn't clear in my message.

There are lots of places that are worth making a destination. It all depends on how far you want to ride in a day. Augusta, Hermann, Jefferson City, Hartsburg, Rocheport, Boonevile, Pilot Grove, Sedalia all are good starting or stopping points.

Augusta and Hermann are probably the top two on the east end of the trail. Augusta is a very easy ride from St. Chas, Hermann more ambitious. You can't beat Hermann in fall so if you can go that far I'd recommend it. Book your room now, Hermann fills up fast. Same for Augusta.

The Weldon Spring stretch (roughly mile 48 to 60) is very nice. Side trails too if you want to explore. I love the openness of the area around Nona (mile 70 or so) heading toward Dutzow. I also like the first few miles west of Marthasville. A bit later the stretch from Treloar to McKittrick (especially from Bernheimer west) is one of the best on the Katy and somewhat remote in feel.

Hank, I saw signs "do not stop along trail" near Weldon Springs due I'm wondering to the radioactive fires. Is this a joke or true?

I really don't recall seeing those signs. Maybe because I love to really burn through there. :)

There was radioactivity all over the area back in the day, but supposedly it's now all been buried on that huge mound just off 94. I doubt there is any issue there today, but likely there are a few bodies buried so to speak that haven't been uncovered.

Just finished a ride from McKittrick to Clinton and back to Sedalia over labor day weekend. our itenerary was:

Day 1: McKittrick to Hunstdale (side trip to Jeff City) [~80 miles]
Day 2: Hunstdale to Sedalia [~60 miles]
Day 3: Sedalia to Clinton and then back to Sedalia [~80 miles]

this is the first time any of the 3 of us had done the Katy Trail and we really weren't sure what to expect. We had a lot of questions that we had unanswered prior to starting. Below are a few of our general observations that should answer some of the unaswered questions. Bear in mind that we are all in our mid 30s and avid cyclists that ride over 3,000 miles per year.

1. You can ride 80 miles in a day and still have plenty of time for stops and sightseeing.

2. We averaged about 12 miles per hour fully loaded panniers.

3. We didn't notice any hills. Again, we are avid cyclists and are used to riding hills in TN.

4. The trail is mostly shaded with the exception of about three or four 2-3 mile sections between Green Ridge and clinton.

5. The strecth between Pilot Grove and Sedalia (~20 miles) is pretty desolate and there's nowhere to get water. Make sure to carry plenty.

6. The trail is listed as "gravel" but it's pretty hard packed and easier than most gravel roads I've been on. that being said, it is a little tougher than pavement and I would recommend some gatorskins or touring tires. I think you could ride 23s (if you're used to them) with no issues.

7. We all anticipated seeing a lot of other cyclists, but we saw very few except day trippers near the larger towns.

8. Once you get off the trail, the motorists are NOT very cyclist friendly. Be safe and always wear your helmet!!!

9. A lot of the general stores and restaurants have irregular/seasonal hours so don't assume something will be open. Always plan ahead.

10. Even if you ride a lot, be prepar

On this website in the FAQ the trail surface is described spot on as: It is covered in crushed limestone, which packs hard and is suitable for running, hiking, or any kind of bike. No mention of gravel there.

Sounds like you had a great trip. I find your comments and observations helpful and very much in line with my experiences on the KATY.

Tire width is a widely debated topic on this forum, but I agree with your assessment. I run hardcase 28s on a single speed bike and love it.

Thanks again for taking the time to post your observations.

Hi all. Please, please take adequate water with you on the trail - especially with this hot weather coming up. We live in Rocheport and put a couple hundred hours on the trail, each year. I have long maintained that the stretch from New Franklin to Rocheport is one of the most "difficult." By that I mean that if you are not acclimated to the heat you could well find yourself 4-5 miles from anywhere with no houses, no shade and brutal heat. The last couple months I have passed 4 water bottles to people hurting in that section. It's hard to stop and cool down too b/c the mosquitoes can be quite ferocious. The Katy is an AWESOME place but please pack enough water and take it easy if you start to feel too hot.

Good advice tmiser, I've heard some of the locals call that stretch of the trail "the desert". It can be brutal if not prepared.

An important message to bump to the top of the page...

It's a 10 mile section tmiser and Paulie. 2 big bottles should get you that distance, hopefully? You are correct Paulie "if you are not prepared'. But there are many desert sections along the KT. The ones that do not have water at trailheads which is about half the trailheads. You need a big camelback backpack to be safe especially in this type of weather.

McKittrick to Treloar is another desert.

I'd say that Pilot Grove to Sedalia is another. ~20 miles with no water.

I'm looking at going on a trip with a few friends and was wondering if my mountain bike would be fine for the trail? we are looking at riding around 30-50 miles a day. I know a hybrid would probably be more ideal but all I have is a mountain bike. Should I invest in a new bike?

Those knobbies get tiresome real fast on a hard surface. Think about buying a pair of slicks for your mountain bike.

There are a bunch of inexpensive 26 models ( eBay--there are some no name semi slicks from Chen Shin that are smooth in the middle with lugs on the side--they work great)

If you have a 29er, 700c hybrid tires work great on 29er rims-- I'd get 37's if you go that way. That is what I ride most of the time.

I say that because I think it's more fun if everyone in the group rides at the same speed. You don't all need high dollar bikes, but you need to be in similar shape with similar speed bikes: Waiting on someone (or trying to catch up) all day gets old real fast.

Ditto on ditching the knobbies. A good set of road tires with some puncture resistance will make it a more enjoyable experience.

That being said, you can ride with knobbies, but they will slow you down.

Also, consider a rack and panniers, or a trailer if you are hauling camping gear. A backpack over distances is a recipe for back pain.

What a great campground. The campground hosts, Patricia and Bruce, are very friendly and accomodating. There are nice campsites right by the river and hot showers. As a cyclist we only paid $10 for 3 people. Be aware that the campstore might not be open and there are no other ammenities in Huntsdale. However, there's a new restaurant/bar a few miles east in McBaine.

Can you ride your bike over, on (is there a biking lane) the highway 19 bridge into Hermann?

Yep, sure is.