Katy Trail Forum

Debating stopping here a night or two on my out and back. Does anyone know if they allow small woodfire stoves at this park? Thanks in advance

I'm not sure. If not there, then maybe down at the park that's a little bit south, at the corner of S Bush Landing Road and River Road. I can't tell if they have grills or not, but it looks like they might.

Is it okay to park a pop-up camper at Volunteer Park in Hartsburg? We’re the size of a pick-up, not large. Where would be a good place to charge the battery on my husband’s bike? It takes about 3 hours. Thanks in advance.

I found a photo that says Tent Camping Only. I'll put the links in the next post. The forum is picky about links.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6948548,-92.3100092,3a,41.1y,91.47h,90.3t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMHJ4W-Tz80h3Tj7sIVif2Gaddmc0MsYsBE9ZNK!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMHJ4W-Tz80h3Tj7sIVif2Gaddmc0MsYsBE9ZNK%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya148.18263-ro0-fo100!7i4608!8i2304?hl=en

I understand the prevailing winds are west to east, but for the past several weeks and looking ahead up through labor day, the wind has been east to west. Is this common this time of year? I was planning on riding from KC to STL starting Sept 7. But now I am starting to wonder if I should do the opposite direction? Thoughts from those who are Missouri residents?

Two years ago, my wife and I did the Katy in mid-September. The winds were out of the east that week, which I found unusual. I've done the Katy 8 times in June and the winds were almost always from the west. I only remember a few days when the wind made a significant difference.

If you like to start riding shortly after sunrise, there is one big advantage to heading west: the Sun won't be in your eyes.

My wife and I will be leaving St. Charles on September 10th. If you start from KC, you just might see us on a silver tandem.

The question of wind comes up every so often, so I will copy-paste some of what was discussed in the past here. The only thing predictable about the wind is its randomness. The textbooks talk about the "prevailing Westerlies", but those are trade winds. Here in the Midwest, our winds come from every direction, but the most common is out of the South (and bringing up lots of Gulf moisture). Just today alone, the wind shifted from East to Southeast to South and now to West. So you really can't count on a consistent direction. And when the South wind hits the river bluffs that run East-to-West along the Katy (Rocheport and eastward), it splits it. So you can have it in your face and a half mile later, it is at your back. If you are interested in wind directions for your area, look up "wind rose", which is a graph that shows the predominant winds for select cities. Here is one for Jefferson City, about mid-point of the trail (scroll down to the bottom). https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/historyclimate/climatemodelled/jefferson-city_united-states-of-america_4392388 As you can see, by far the prominent direction is from the South, followed by the Southeast. Another interesting fact is that the resistance caused by wind is a cube of the speed. So if you are riding into a 5 mph headwind and later it becomes a 10 mph headwind, then you are facing not twice, but 8 times the resistance as you would expect (take the factor and cube it, in this case, 2^3=8). Certainly starting off your day into a strong wind will make for a tiring day. The best way to plan/prepare is to assume that the wind will be your enemy for part of the trip. Also note that the winds in Missouri are much calmer from about June 1 to September 1, as the jet stream moves farther North during the summer.

Hey folks, looking to get dropped off in Hermann and ride home to Kansas City via rock island at the end. Anyone done this stretch recently? Is water fairly plentiful, and where are your favorite places to tent camp if any? I know when I rode the whole thing a few years ago, Sedalia would supposedly allow camping at the fairgrounds.

New campground with showerhouse a little west of Sedalia- Lazy Liz Campground. In Windsor two camping options

Steamboat Campground is on the trail between Rhineland and Portland.

Planning on trip starting in Pleasant Hill to Katy trail then on to Herman. Is the trail surface on the Rock island similar to the Katy. Also has anyone stayed at the Crossroads motel in Windsor wondering how it is.

rock island trail is good to go

The Rock Island is similar to the Katy, but a little rougher. Not as many riders have pounded down the Rock Island trail yet.

I highly recommend Kim's Cabins in Windsor. The wife and I spent 3 nights there earlier this year. It's very close to the intersection of the Rock Island and Katy.

https://bikekatytrail.com/kims-cabins.aspx

I rode the trail and it's really dirty.
A world class Trail like this needs to be paved. There are plenty of donors out there that I would imagine we'll be more than happy to donate to this cause. I will leave this would increase writer ship greatly. People who have rode it before would want to ride it again. It gets washed out frequently it needs frequent repairs. A really good pavement or asphalt would make this truly a world-class Trail. They are even environmental techniques do use during its construction. There are ways to make the roadbed flexible so it never wears out as well. A Canadian highway use the same technique and they have never had to repair the highway ever. It would make it a lot safer for people and easier for maintenance crews and emergency crews. All the rain and the mud tears people's shoes and clothes up because if it's silicon lime stone nature's. Asphalt or pavement will make it a lot safer Journey during rain.

I encourage you to find the donor willing to put out the millions and millions of dollars necessary to pave hundreds of miles of very functional gravel.

The rest of us will continue to enjoy using the trail as a way to have a back-to-nature experience away from paved roads.

I agree it should be paved.. By the State..
Florida has hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of miles of paved trails.
A state that has no state tax.. Here in Missouri we have a state
tax plus they just legalized medical marijuana which the state
makes millions off of.. So where is all this money going..
I haven't seen any evidence of it in my town as far as improvements in roads or any thing else..
Iowa, Illinois, Ohio, Florida, dotta dotta dotta
all have paved trails.. But not Missouri..
They might have a few inside city limits of Stlouis
and KansasCity but thats it. But who wants to drive 200 or 300
miles just to ride a 10 mile trail.
Well thats my 2cents now all you haters can reply below...lol

Reoccurring theme here. Last year on 8/28/2021 James Davis from St. Louis posted about the desire for the trail to be paved.

James Davis from St Louis on 8/28/2021 3:04:55 AM:
....There are MANY ways to EASILY fund this. We can do this!!!

Not quite a year later, james from st louis (next of kin to James Davis from St Louis perhaps) believes that "There are plenty of donors out there that I would imagine we'll be more than happy to donate to this cause. I will leave this would increase writer ship greatly."

Perhaps James and james, perhaps. I'm curious to know how many dollars have been raised to date. Any at all? Or is this akin to the why can't I ride my horse anywhere on the trail that I want to forum topics?

What is James smoking? Missouri refuses to develop the Rock Island Trail and has countless miles of highway that needs repair. Find another cause.

Paving the trail would not stop the washouts; in fact, it would bring a new set of maintenance issues. The rail bed was laid along the Missouri River flood plain because it was easy and cheap. And that is one of the reasons the MKT failed as a railroad -- because of the frequent washouts. It's much easier to repair the washouts on a gravel surface than an asphalt or concrete surface. Limited funds mean that tough choices have to be made. I would much rather spend any funds on 1) repairing the trails we already have; then 2) getting the Rock Island online and connected to the Katy; then 3) improving the amenities (like running water) along both routes. Paving the Katy to make it a more comfortable ride would be WAY down the list.

I concur that paving the Katy should actually not be a priority. Although very nice at first, a paved trail would be very expensive to construct and in addition would require constant maintenance, continuously more as the surface ages. There is no such thing as a maintenance free surface in my opinion. The subgrade and aggregate base would be susceptible to washouts from flooding as has been pointed out previously. The repair of a paved surface would be more expensive than repairs to the present trail. By nature, a bituminous flexible type surface would experience expansion/contraction cracking and would be subjected to uplifting by adjacent root structures at a minimum. My experience with asphalt paved recreation trails is that they do not last as long as paved roads with primarily light traffic. The cost to pave the Katy would be enormous. Drainage structures of various kinds would be required to keep the subgrade from failing due to moisture. An aggregate shoulder would be required to support the pavement on each side of the trail as well. A yearly maintenance budget would have too be included in the lifecycle cost. With proper maintenance, the paved surface could be expected to last 15-20 years.

I hope that the Rock Island will be constructed in my cycling lifetime!

Of all the rail-trails I have ridden around the country, paved trails are my least favorite. I will never go back to a paved trail. I'm not interested in riding on a sidewalk though a beautiful natural setting! One of the worst is the Silver Comet in Georgia. The surface is concrete and smooth but the experience is not pleasant. It just feels wrong.
Paved trails also get choked with strollers, children on roller skates and scooters, go-fast road bikes, etc. You may as well be riding downtown. Leave the KATY alone. If you want pavement, ride in Georgia or Florida.

Well since everyone is concerned about washouts from the river flooding, why couldnt they build paved trails elsewhere in the State.. Like from St.Joseph to Hannibal along Hwy.36? There's plenty of other places to build trails too.. Like every time a 2-lane road is repaired it could have a bike lane added..

In MO we are PROUD to offer Tourists FREE Touring. Using the KATY Trail is FREE! FREE! No Charge. The beauty of the KATY is that it is a Leisure Trail. The Chat (what is is made of) is part of it's Rural Beauty. If you are looking for Pavement. Come to MO and ride in our Cities that have Bike Paths. You will find that in St. Louis MO even our ZOO IS FREE! The Art Museum is FREE, as well as MANY other Wonderful things to see.

And so many other states have a fee system for state parks, bike trails, etc. I've paid their fees many times right before inviting them to come enjoy their time in Missouri for free.

Never quite understood those complaining about the quality of what they paid nothing for.

While a paved trail is nice in a lot of circumstances, for the experience of a long distance bike ride in the midst of all the natural environment along this wonderful trail, I would be quite opposed to having it paved. The three times we have ridden it over the years, even on or just after rain days, we have been very impressed with the quality of the crushed granite trail surface. To the people of the great state of Missouri, please spend those tax dollars fixing the streets and highways in your state that need repair, and continue with the awesome job of maintaining the Katy as you are.

Dude! It's Missouri, they are not going to pave the Katy or Rock Island Trail. It's a fantastic trail, DNR does a great job of maintaining it and repairing it after storm damage, Missourians are very proud of it and should be. It does not need to be paved. Get your butt on a bike, get on the trail, and appreciate it for all of its positives. Pave the Katy Trail, give me strength!!!

Imagine that, a dirt trail is dirty. Hopefully by now he has forgotten how awful the trail was and will let the rest of us enjoy one of the finest assests missouri has. After all we normally are 50th in everything.

Hey Mike, how are you and the other fine people of Hartsburg? This is Cathy from Pittsburgh, formerly known as Cathy from Jefferson City. I sure do miss you folks and think about our work on the Missouri River Bluffs Association often. Take Care. Cathy

This topic does keep reoccurring. I would not be nearly as inclined to drive all the way from Dallas to do a long (we usually go Sedalia to St Charles) ride on the KATY if the trail was paved. It would be a totally different feel. So I guess my point is the opinions are split. There really isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to look at it. The surface folks like to ride on is simply a matter of choice. So with that said, Katy should not be paved, as there are many folks who love it as is. However, and I am not trying to be facetious, can anyone recommend nearby states that have long paved trails for those who really want the clean smooth surface to ride on?

I sure want the Rock Island done before ever thinking about paving the KATY. I agree with others that said paving the KATY would create issues. Potholes in asphalt are worse than the washouts in gravel. At 67 I would like to see the Rock Island done while I am still able to use it. I hauled the bike 45 miles to Hartsburg yesterday to ride to Rocheport and back. It would be nice to jump on a trail that is just a mile away. Here in Eldon they took all the donations and built a replica of the depot and haven't done a bit of the trail. Disappointing.

Deby, while not super-close to Texas, consider the Raccoon River trail (89 miles paved) near Des Moines, IA. Also if you are in the St. Louis area, the Madison County (Illinois) trail system gives you about 130 miles of paved trails. If you're OK driving further, look at all the Fred Meijer trails in Michigan. The White Pine trail alone is 93 miles and in pretty good condition (mostly paved). Traillink is your friend, as well as Google Maps with the Bicycling layer turned on. The more paved trails will show up as solid lines (vs dashed lines for less improved).

More paved trails..The Root River Trail, Paul Bunyan Trail, & Heartland Trail in Minnesota. We've ridden them all and and they are very good trails going through nice country.

BikerBoy suggested the Raccoon River trail. While up in that part of Iowa, I also suggest the High Trestle Trail near Des Moines. I rode it last Thursday. It's only 25 miles but that would make a good 50 mile ride out and back. The trestle is amazing.

To BikerBoy, Thank you so much for those recommendations of great paved trails, and I hope all those folks who want paved trails will take a look. There are a lot of options for paved trails. Just for the record, I am NOT a fan of paving the Katy, and as I stated, probably would not be too interested in riding it, if it were paved.

Hi Deby, I attempted the KT last year and would like to try again next year. May I email you about some logistic questions? If so, please contact me at quescrub@sbcglobal.net

The Paul Bunyan in Minnesota is a good paved ride.

The Des Moines Iowa area has several paved trails. The High Trestle Trail is a good ride too. Panora north on the Racoon River Valley Trail had some very rough spots that made it quite miserable. All in all its a good ride to Jefferson for a nights stay and next day return.

Unpaved though rules! The Mickelson Trail in South Dakota and the Route of the Hiawatha in Idaho are both fantastic rides and worth the trip.

Oh dear, a dirty trail, whatever next?! Let's have neat and tidy asphalt then.
Please no; we've ridden the Katy, the GAP, the Erie Canal, many trails in the UK and France and the different surfaces are part of the challenge and the experience. As anonymous writes, "it just feels wrong paved". And I agree with Marna, there are many towns and cities with tarmaced cycle trails - ride those. And there are surfaced roads on most trails when they go through towns and villages, that's fine, but as many others point out, spend the money (what money?) improving the infrastructure generally and keeping the UNPAVED in good condition.

I'm riding the Mickelson Trail Sept 8th. I've heard great things and saw beautiful pictures of the trail. I looked into the Fred Meijer trails in MI. I plan to ride FM Heartland or White Pine next time I visit my mom in the U.P. Thank you for telling us about them!

You will love the Michelson. My husband and I have a LOT of miles on that trail and have ridden it in complete, both directions.
it is NOT FLAT! Take a lot of water, more than you think you will need. ;-)

Thank you, Marna! I'm riding north to south and the climbs look intimidating. I'll have my camelbak and water bottle with plans to refill often. May I email you with questions?

Sure. You can email me. Just make sure to use all caps in your subject line. I get a LOT of junk mail and often hurry it to the trash. HAHAHAH
One thing for sure, take extra water, snacks and a JACKET. Even on really warm days. Good chance you will need it.

Our wonderful webmaster Ray has a site set up for the Mickelson and several other long trails -- https://bikemickelson.com/

Like South Dakota, it's a little sparse on activity, but still a great resource. :)

Bikerboy, I saw Ray's name on the Mickelson website and wondered if he was our Ray. Mystery solved.

Marna, please email me at quescrub@sbcglobal.net. I don't know your email address. I saw the usual highs and lows in SD for Sept. Base layer and windbreaker on packing list. I'm a whimp when is comes to cooler temps. I look forward hearing from you!