Katy Trail Forum

I'm going to be visiting the Katy trail for the first time this weekend and was wanting to camp near Rocheport. I have been able to find very limited information regarding camping. Does anyone have any input regarding camping at Davisdate Conservation Area? Or other camping suggestions? Preferable a bit secluded. I'm not really looking to be near a bunch or RVs.

Primitive camping only is allowed anywhere in the Davisdale conservation area. You might also consider New Franklin.

Karen,

Campsites are available at New Franklin (9.6 miles from Rocheport) for a fee. They aren't bad...they have a showerhouse.

The place in New Franklin is The Katy Roundhouse, which is right on the trail. If you plan to stay there, you might want to call ahead to make sure they have room.

Thanks for suggestions. I'm currently trying to contact someone at The Katy Roundhouse for a possible reservation. What about camping at Diana Bend? Is the "primitive" camping too bad at Davisdale? I'm use to backbacking and not having facilities. Has anyone camped there? Is there limited camping? Is it crowded? What exactly is primitive camping? I can't seam to reach anyone at Davisdale.

I have the same question as Karen. I have a group of 4 dads and 10 boys. I was hoping to get some info about the campsite at Diana Bend or Davisdale.

I hiked the trail with one of my friends 2 weeks before I left for boot camp, we did primitive camping all along the trail at just random spots never having any trouble or issues. Just go off the trail a little ways *mark your direction so you dont get lost* and pitch tent......just avoid an open fire.

Ok, At the time I had no idea it was illegal, I assumed that the rule I saw posted at one of the conservation areas about primitive camping applied the whole way....Ignore the post about camping anywhere.

Its too bad that "guerilla" type camping is illegal. I understand the problems that could arrise but having to pay to camp or stay in a B&B just sucks.

I don't really think having to pay to camp is that big a deal is it?



Heck....I had to pay for my bike! And I have to pay for gas to drive several hours to ride it on the Katy. Even had to pay for the car darn it! If I'm gone all day, I even have to pay to eat!



Ahhhh....to be 12 again! Livin off Dad and Mom...stealin apples.....ridin the bike that Santa gave me.

Trek Biker....totally agree. Mike, if you ask first I can say from experience that there are small communities that allow FREE camping in their parks, you just have to be considerate and inquire first before "diving in". Regards.....Mark of the Dalton Boys

And I agree with you. I never said I was inconciderate. I believe that permission should be given before "diving in". My point is, they tap you for every nickle and it would be nice if there were some more free camping areas for people who would like to rough it a little more. Having just done a good portion of the AT where there are shelters for campers, it would be neat to see something like that on the Katy.

My intention was not to start any problems.

Happy trails to all.

I'm just a beginner, and may be trying this on my own for now. I see a lot about biking, but can I just hike this trail and camp out in the Davis Conservation area anywhere? Are there signs that tell you where camping is okay?

Davisdale Conservation Area has two campsites each 3-6 bike minutes north of the trail. 3 miles west of Rocheport, west of the HW 40 overpass is a parking lot south of the Katy trail. Take the field access road over the levee to the north. 1/2 mile west from there is another parking lot to the south. Take the road over the levee to the north, then up a hill to the campsite. A little hike west on that ridge yields a nice bluff view of the river bottom. No toilets or water. Brochure says: "Primitive camping on a walk-in basis is allowed but only in designated areas." "No open fires except by special use permit or in fire rings provided." "Bicycles are allowed only on roads open to vehicles and service roads." No problem biking to campsites. The area can be thick with hunters from Sep 1 to Jan 31. Except then and with occasional scout groups, it is quiet. The hilly conservation area extends 2 miles further north with additional primitive camp sites.

A map: http://mdc.mo.gov/cgi-bin/atlas/gis4media.cgi?area=8229map

Is calling ahead to make camping site reservations a good idea if cycling the Katy over Memorial Weekend?

I would say almost certainly not necessary--B & Bs would be a different story. The main reason to call ahead would be to make sure the places you want to stop are actually open! Also, if you're planning to camp in the city parks, I think you do need to call ahead to arrange that.

For those wondering what "primitive" camping means at the Davisdale conservation area: No water, no firepit, no outhouse, nothing except a sign giving permission to camp. Not even a scenic view. Nothing except a parking lot. For anyone looking for a bit more, go east to Katy's Katfish.

Karen,

Davisdale has a campsite right next to the parking lot. Too open for my tastes. Go over the creek and follow the path (mowed lane)north for about 1/4 of a mile. The second campsite will be on the right about halfway up the hill. Nice spot, you'll see lots of deer in the morning. You have a few choices for water.

1. Pack your own in with you. Remember that water is 8lbs per gallon, gets heavy.

2. Buy a $30 pump water filter from REI, Bass Pro, Campmor, or some other outdoor dsports store. Katydyn makes a good one for under $30. This way you can safetly draw water from the creek.

3. Buy iodine or micropur pills at the same places, usually right next to the pumps. Tastes like crap but it's safe and beats the heck out of dehydration. Hint when using iodine or micropur: Sprinkl about a half teaspoon of kool-aid or other drink mix to mask the taste.

We had planned to camp at Dianes Bend but when we got there, it looked like the only camping area was off the trail and was almost like a parking lot. No trees, no tables, no firepit, no tables...nothing. We treked on up to Katfish Katys and camped there...it was nice.

In nearly every thread about services provided on the Katy Trail, comments are made about the deplorable lack of services for riders and hikers. These comments are usually followed by negative comments about prices of services that are available. My extensive experience on the Katy Trail is that I've never seen anybody getting rich serving hikers/bikers. Most service providers seem to be barely making it and then only by providing service to customers who aren't using the Katy Trail. I realize that the Katy Trail provides a low cost recreation option. If you're on a tight budget, please know that no business can survive unless it makes a profit. If most of that profit comes from non-trail users then you won't be the highest priority. If you want more trail services, patronize the businesses already in place and quit griping about the prices. If you think you can provide more services at cheaper prices then there is a great business opportunity along the trail for you. Don't forget--you expect these trail businesses to be open daily and for long hours most of the year.

So, do the Davisdale campsites north of the trail allow a fire? My understanding is that some of the Conservation Campgrounds do, some don’t.



Also, anyone ever try to camp at the Hart Conservation Campsite in Hartsburg? Do they allow a fire there? I have been by where I think it is a few times, and don’t recall if it even had a sign.

This will be my first time doing the DNR ride and I was wondering if any veterans of the ride had any tips on how to train, what to bring, etc?

My first DNR ride was last year. I started training and losing weight around this time in March on my Spinning bike, and then, at least 3 times a week, I'd bike around the asphalt trail at St. Joe State Park. Once I could do that 18-mile trail twice in one day (there are killer hills), I figured I was prepared. And you know what? I totally was.


Other, more experienced riders would probably be better equipped to tell you what to take. I just had a waist pack with cell phone, iPod, credit card & money, allergy tablets, eye wash, sm. bottle of SPF 30, chapstick, disposable camera, travel wipes, and a plastic folding pancho (didn't need it tho). I also had, in the tiny pack velcroed to my seat, 2 extra tubes, chain lube & wash, and one of those bike-tool thingies (it looks like a swiss army knife kinda thing). Mercifully, I had no flats (I ride a mountain bike with tires that have flat faces and knobby edges). No need to pack snacks, really. There's water & peanut butter, bananas, apples, and/or water at each 10-15 mile stop.


Oh, know what else I did? I used this web site to figure out the sights along the way, and copied them off, folded them up and took them with me. It helped peel the miles away, too. I'd never part with my Schwinn speedometer/odomoter from Wal-Mart. It's the best $14 investment ever.


This year, I'm bringing stamps so I can send postcards to myself along the way, sort of a travel diary to accompany my photos. Hotel Bothwell has an old-timey mail slot and chute from the higher floors, so the postcard drops down a glass chute into the P.O. box in the lobby. Fun to watch.

We're planning on riding the trail near Hermann in mid-April. Two questions: which way (east or west) is prettier/nearer the river? and starting from Hermann is it safe to cycle the highways to the nearby wineries?

Hermann to Portland (west) is a pretty ride along the bluffs in several places.

With Hermanoff and Stone Hill in town, I'd opt out hitting the highways to visit others. Although Adam Puchta has some very good wine...IMO it is not worth the effort to visit, even by car. If you know the grape that you like, look for Puchta wine(or others) at Loutre Market just south of McKittrick...the cost is much less than at the winery.

Ohhhh, Trek, I humbly disagree.

To me Puchta is the best winery in the Hermann area. But then again, to each his own... ;-)

They do have very good wine...it's not available in St. Joseph though, so we drive to north Kansas City to buy it. Gotta by volume on those trips!

Hi. My family and I are hoping to do a car-free katy trip from St. Louis back to Columbia. We plan to ride the trail to JC, catch AmTrak to St. Louis or the nearest train stop to the trailhead in St. Chas...is there a closer one? And ride back home.



SO, where is the best place to get off AmTrak? What is the most bike friendly way to ride from the train to the trail?

Amtrak has a station at Kirkwood. Not very close to St. Charles. Maybe you could get a friend or relative to come and get you at the station.

Here are two pages with some info that may be helpful: riding Amtrak along the Katy Trail and getting to/from Kirkwood Amtrak station.

Just saw yesterday the info is now posted on the State Parks web site for this year's ride.

http://www.mostateparks.com/katytrail/2008ride.htm

I am trying to find out if Papa Jake's bakes birthday cakes and what people think of them and their place, donuts, etc. Thanks!

I am trying to find out if Papa Jake's bakes birthday cakes and what people think of them and their place, donuts, etc. Thanks!

I hope this gets to you in time. Papa Jake's has the best donuts I've ever put in my mouth!!! However, they only do donuts, and they close at 1:00 pm daily.

I hope this gets to you in time. Papa Jake's has the best donuts I've ever put in my mouth!!! However, they only do donuts, and they close at 1:00 pm daily.

I grew up about 1/2 a block from Papa Jake's. I haven't been there in decades, but I'm glad to see that it's still around. Great donuts - during the summer we would occasionally get out in the middle of the night to get hot donuts.

I grew up about 1/2 a block from Papa Jake's. I haven't been there in decades, but I'm glad to see that it's still around. Great donuts - during the summer we would occasionally get out in the middle of the night to get hot donuts.

Everytime I click on the Dollhouse web address it kicks me off the internet, even if I enter the address manually. Why is this?

I don't know what was going on, but it's working for me right now, both in IE and FireFox. Try this: http://www.thedollhousebandb.com/.

I am wondering if you are running some sort of parental control software like net-nanny that thinks you are trying to go to an unacceptable site since the address contains the word "dollhouse" - just a thought.

I will gladly pay for anyones long distance inquires ----- these are my charges

(1) shuttle or pick up at at Kirkwood station.....$25.00

(2) shuttle or pick up at St. Louis station.....$25.00

(3) shuttle or pick up to Clinton MO....$250.00

(4) shuttle or pick up to Sedalia.....$170.00

(5) shuttle or pick up to Booneville.....$130.00

these charges are for two cyclists,bikes and gear

$50.00 for each additional cyclists

shuttle service is only available for guests of Lococo House ll

you can e-mail me at rhonaloc@yahoo.com or call me at 636-946-0619

Thank you

we started our shuttle in 1997 and we have not raised our prices ---- that is almost unheard of in business ----when you consider how the price of gas has gone up, insurane rates and a new vehicle. I hope this information is helpful ------Thanks again ------Rhona

is that the price per person or would it be the same for me and my wife?

why didn't I open my eyes and read the last part of your price list.

One question. When is this years Wild on the Katy ride

June 16-20. This year the theme is "Ride West".
You'll probably have other questions, and most answers can be found here: http://www.mostateparks.com/katytrail/2008ride.htm

http://www.mostateparks.com/katytrail/



And my husband and I (and my dad) snagged rooms in Hartsburg at the Globe Hotel! Bada-bing! :)



Finally, it seems more real. I can now focus on getting into shape for the ride.

My friend and I are driving to St. Louis this summer and taking the train from Kirkwood to Sedalia. Then we will ride back to St. Charles. Does anyone know a safe route to ride our bikes from St. Charles to the Kirkwood train station? We were also planning to park our car for about 5 days in Kirkwood, maybe a rental space? Does that sound reasonable?

Check out the Kirkwood page for some route suggestions between the Katy Trail and Kirkwood.

My wife and I followed the route below (mentioned elsewhere in the forum) with a twist toward the beginning:



From the Page Bridge and Creve Coeur Park Connector Trail, take the following roads:

SE on Marine Ave.

Straight on Westport Plaza Dr.

Straight on Craig Rd.

Left on Olive Blvd.

Right on Mosley Rd.

Left on Ladue Rd.

Right on Spoede Rd.

Right on Clayton Rd.

Left on Geyer Rd.

Left on Argonne Rd.



Our variation was suggested elsewhere online, where you avoid the "infamously" steep, narrow, windy Marine Avenue up from the park. The suggested alternative had us go south on Creve Coeur Mill Road away from the park, then turning left onto Amiot Drive. Amiot will take you more gradually and safely up to the top of the ridge where you will meet up with Marine Avenue.



However, there's a problem. When this alternative was mentioned to us, it did say you would turn off Creve Coeur Mill into a parking lot, pass over or under a cable barrier and then ride up Amiot. It did NOT mention that the parking lot is for an apartment complex with multiple signs discouraging cyclists from using it as access to Amiot. The parking lot is essentially the road end of Amiot blocked off with a cable. Take away the cable and there's no reason cars (or bikes) couldn't go right through. I certainly can't recommend using that route given the situation. On the other hand, it is "better", in many respects, than going up the hill on Marine Avenue.



By the way, the route from Marine Avenue to Kirkwood Amtrak is very good for urban riding. A little up and down at times, but nothing as hard as getting up the hill from the river at the start. Plus, you go by some VERY nice homes.

Living in Kirkwood we see cars parked at the Amtrak station daily. They have a parking lot just for the station. Also, across the street from the station is a parking garage which always has plenty of parking. That I know of there are no posted signs not allowing extended parking at either place. Unfortunately, if you are wanting to ride to the end/start in St. Charles you will have to back track to the Page bridge to get a safe route back to Kirkwood unless you can find a ride accross the brige in St. Charles. The posted Route 4 is probably the best option they have listed with Marine being the only problem and other roads are good to ride.

I would like to ride the entire Katy Trail. Does anyone know, is Washington the closest Amtrak stop to the east side of the trail? I understand Warrensburg is the closest to Clinton.

For the east side of the trail, I would think the Kirkwood station in St. Louis or the downtown station would be closest to the eastern terminus in St. Charles. I think on the western end, Sedalia is the spot where most riders get off Amtrak. But Warrensburg would be close, too.

Check out this site's Amtrak page:

http://www.bikekatytrail.com/amtrak.asp

It is hard to get to the Katy Trail from Warrensburg, I would recommend Sedalia. It would be much better to ride the trail on to clinton and backtrack to Sedalia

I know for fact I cannot make this ride in it's entirety. I would love to know more about how it goes and could do 2 or so days. not trying to be a cheap skate but what would prohibit a guy from just tagging along for 2 days without paying. ( I would bring my own gear,food and camp would not dream of using any resources others have paid for) I have done the moonlight ramble and notice many wait outside the start and just ride along. I pay every year because I believe in their cause, but inthe above mentioned case I just want to meet some people and budget the time for the complete supported ride maybe next year.

I believe you can sign up for 1 or 2 days, and pay a reduced fee. The one problem I see with your plan is that they do give everyone a rider tag that you need to display on your bike(or person), so you come into their camp without that, and try to set up to camp, you might be questioned about that by someone with DNR and they may ask you to leave. They often camp at schools or other non designated camp sites, and I presume they(DNR) pays for this, so just camping with the tour group w/o paying is not a good plan. However, I don't see anything wrong with simply riding the trail and camping or lodging elsewhere on a schedule that coincides with the tour to get a feel for what it is like.

PS, FYI, the tour this year is June 16-20, and it starts in St. Charles(not official yet, but last year started in Clinton), but they have not announced the intermediate stops yet, but that should be avaliable in a few weeks.

am planning a trip for mid April 2008 to ride the trail from the Kansas City MO side (Clinton) to St Louis MO (St Charles). We would like to rent bikes in or near to Clinton and return them in or near to St Charles or St Louis. Are you aware of any way this can be accomplished? I see that some one way riders take the train and return by bike, we would like to avoid the need to add this extra step if we can. We only will have 4 days to ride and epect that the train will kill most of one day only giving us three (3) to ride, which might be a bit aggressive, your thoughts on this?

That's a good question. I am not aware of any bike rentals that can be picked up at one end of the trail and left at the other end. Most of the bike rentals are small independent bike shops, not affiliated with other shops at other points on the trail. You might want to call a few of the rental places on either end of the trail to see if they have any ideas.

One possibility is to get a shuttle service to haul the bikes back for you They typically haul bikes and riders, but I would imagine they'd be happy to do just bikes. But you may end up paying two or three hundred dollars to have the bikes transported cross-state. I would suggest calling a few shuttle services to check prices and feasibility.

You are correct that the train would require a day of your time. What's more, the trains frequently get behind schedule. It's a nice way to travel, but not when you're pressed for time.

As far as whether three days is reasonable for doing the whole trail: that's a pretty fast schedule, but many people do it in three days. It just depends on whether you're in condition to ride three consecutive 75-mile days.


Perhaps others will have ideas - I am posting your question and my answer on the Katy Trail Forum just in case someone out there has other suggestions.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you!

Shiping bikes back to Clinton of Sedalia would be much cheaper than shuttling them.

It seems this issue comes up from time to time.....how do I or my things get to the other end of the state now? Its a shame someone out there that wants to ride the trail can't share the rental expense and enjoy a one way ride back to the west side for you.

A friend and I stayed in the Katy View on June 10, 2007. Loved it! Enjoyed the quiet and the

opportunity to clean our clothes while taking a relaxing dip in the hot tub. Already trying to

find another time to go for a bike ride and stay at the B&B.... The host works at the Trailside

Cafe which is great inexpensive lunch also.

A friend and I stayed in the Katy View on June 10, 2007. Loved it! Enjoyed the quiet and the

opportunity to clean our clothes while taking a relaxing dip in the hot tub. Already trying to

find another time to go for a bike ride and stay at the B&B.... The host works at the Trailside

Cafe which is great inexpensive lunch also.

We stayed here on Aug 12 and loved it. The place is sort of a combo B&B/hostel because you have used of the kitchen, and there is no host on premise. Due to the heat, a grab and go breakfast was great. We were out and on the trail by 6:30, no need to wait to eat. The hot tub was dirty, but in 103 degree heat, we didn't want to use it anyway. We will tell the owner, she may not know. We would definitely recommend this place. Very convenient to the trail! Also, not the "doily" type of B&B. Very nice and clean.

We stayed here on Aug 12 and loved it. The place is sort of a combo B&B/hostel because you have used of the kitchen, and there is no host on premise. Due to the heat, a grab and go breakfast was great. We were out and on the trail by 6:30, no need to wait to eat. The hot tub was dirty, but in 103 degree heat, we didn't want to use it anyway. We will tell the owner, she may not know. We would definitely recommend this place. Very convenient to the trail! Also, not the "doily" type of B&B. Very nice and clean.

A rather odd place. Certainly not a typical bed & breakfast with a friendly host and homemade breakfasts. Not quite a hostel either. The living space was nice enough and the food provided for breakfast was tolerable. Yet, the entry code we were given for getting into the building was wrong (two too many digits) and had to depend on another lodger for the right code combination. Turns out, that lodger had to ask the manager for the correct code to get in. The hot tub actually smelled like stagnant pond water, so we chose to not use it. The manager did show up twice while we were there, but never said "hi" or in any way acknowledged our existence. The price is not terrible for what is a prime getaway town for Kansas City with other award-winning lodging, but it could easily be better than it is.

A rather odd place. Certainly not a typical bed & breakfast with a friendly host and homemade breakfasts. Not quite a hostel either. The living space was nice enough and the food provided for breakfast was tolerable. Yet, the entry code we were given for getting into the building was wrong (two too many digits) and had to depend on another lodger for the right code combination. Turns out, that lodger had to ask the manager for the correct code to get in. The hot tub actually smelled like stagnant pond water, so we chose to not use it. The manager did show up twice while we were there, but never said "hi" or in any way acknowledged our existence. The price is not terrible for what is a prime getaway town for Kansas City with other award-winning lodging, but it could easily be better than it is.

Just a quick note on the hot tub from the innkeepers of the Katy Trail B&B. During the 2007 season, we were frustrated too. The city of Rocheport switched from well water to county water. During the summer, we were faced with intermittent water quality issues that magnified themselves when filling a 500-gallon hot tub. They were blasting different levels of chlorine through the pipes that was working loose sediment in the old lines, and we were faced with extraordinary challenges to keep the hot tub in tip top shape, especially given the heavy use it receives on some weekends. The 2008 season and beyond should be cake compared to what we were dealing with last year. We've installed additional filtration and are changing our maintenance schedule to keep the hot tub in great shape so that its ready to soak your sore muscles and get you ready for another day of riding on the trail.

Just a quick note on the hot tub from the innkeepers of the Katy Trail B&B. During the 2007 season, we were frustrated too. The city of Rocheport switched from well water to county water. During the summer, we were faced with intermittent water quality issues that magnified themselves when filling a 500-gallon hot tub. They were blasting different levels of chlorine through the pipes that was working loose sediment in the old lines, and we were faced with extraordinary challenges to keep the hot tub in tip top shape, especially given the heavy use it receives on some weekends. The 2008 season and beyond should be cake compared to what we were dealing with last year. We've installed additional filtration and are changing our maintenance schedule to keep the hot tub in great shape so that its ready to soak your sore muscles and get you ready for another day of riding on the trail.

Regarding the breakfast, we have a very hearty continental breakfast that includes juice, coffee, tea, muffins, yogurt, granola, granola bars, fresh fruit, scones, cereal, oatmeal, bagels and toppings, etc. We find that what we are offering for the price is a perfect fit for the majority of our guests, who like the ability to come and go, and to eat and check out at their convenience. My wife Tawnee & I look forward to hosting you on your next Rocheport adventure.

Regarding the breakfast, we have a very hearty continental breakfast that includes juice, coffee, tea, muffins, yogurt, granola, granola bars, fresh fruit, scones, cereal, oatmeal, bagels and toppings, etc. We find that what we are offering for the price is a perfect fit for the majority of our guests, who like the ability to come and go, and to eat and check out at their convenience. My wife Tawnee & I look forward to hosting you on your next Rocheport adventure.

Regarding the keypad dilemma mentioned above. We're very sorry about that. Our first attempt at using keypads turned sour when the products we purchased proved to be pieces of junk (Ebay!) and required replacement after three weeks. This did create an awkward 1-week period where some guests arrived with a six digit keycode (for the old locks) that would not work for the new keypads (4 digits). We did have copious notes on the doors, etc., that explained how to convert the old codes to the new one, by omitting certain digits. Also, we had alerted everyone we could via email. With two phone numbers posted on the doors, etc., this is the only complaint we received while switching over to new equipment. We are sorry that caused you any inconvenience.

Regarding the keypad dilemma mentioned above. We're very sorry about that. Our first attempt at using keypads turned sour when the products we purchased proved to be pieces of junk (Ebay!) and required replacement after three weeks. This did create an awkward 1-week period where some guests arrived with a six digit keycode (for the old locks) that would not work for the new keypads (4 digits). We did have copious notes on the doors, etc., that explained how to convert the old codes to the new one, by omitting certain digits. Also, we had alerted everyone we could via email. With two phone numbers posted on the doors, etc., this is the only complaint we received while switching over to new equipment. We are sorry that caused you any inconvenience.