Katy Trail Forum

I am planning a Katy ride in May with folks I have ridden with many times before and some have asked about the elevation changes at the western end of the Katy. I crunched the numbers, then compared them with a mountainous section of the Great Allegheny Passage, which we have ridden several times.

These are the Katy numbers.

Clinton 780'

Calhoun 770' - descend 10' in 9.1 miles - 1.099 ft/m

Windsor 890' - climb 120' in 7.5 miles -16 ft/m

Highest Point 955' - climb 65' in 4.2 miles - 15.48ft/m (I'm not certain of the exact location of the highest point, but I think it is near Bryson MO)

Green Ridge 905' - descend 50' in 4.6 miles - 10.87 ft/m

Sedalia 905' - No change, except that the chart indicates a swale between Green Ridge and Sedalia, without giving the elevation of the lowest point.

Clifton City 725' - descend 180' in 13.6 miles - 1.32 ft/m

Pilot Grove 835' - climb 110' in 12.1 miles - 9.09 ft/m

Booneville 615 ' - descend 220' in 11.5 miles - 19.13 ft/m

Here are the GAP numbers from Ohiopyle to Cumberland.



Ohiopyle trailhead 1234'

Confluence at the bridge over the Yough 1329' - climb 95' in 10.3 m - 0.92 ft/m

Rockwood trailhead 1831' - climb 502' in 19 m - 26.4 ft/m

Meyersdale trailhead 2107' - climb 276' in 12m - 23 ft/m

Eastern Continental Divide 2392' - climb 285' in 8.2m - 34.76 ft/m

Frostburg trailhead 1819' - descend 573' in 8.2m - 69.88 ft/m

Cumberland at the towpath - 616' - descend 1203' in 15.5m - 77.6 ft/m

I correct myself. The rate of change from Sedalia to Clifton City is descending at 13.2 ft/m.

FWIW the data I have on the whole trail indicates for the section you have:

Clinton to Lewis - 13.9m, 2.9m
Lewis to Calhoun - 19.8m, 11.3m
Calhoun to Windsor - 47.7m, 26.2m
Windsor to Bryson - 75.1m, 29.2m
Bryson to Green Ridge - 81.1m, 37.4m
Green Ridge to Camp Branch - 83.1, 48m
Camp Branch to Sedalia - 101.3, 75.1
Sedalia to Clifton City - 140, 135
Clifton City to Pilot Grove - 208.9, 190.1
Pilot Grove to Prairie Lick - 217.6, 225.1
Prairie Lick to Boonville - 244.2, 256.3

Of course, as I keep saying, it's an old railroad bed, so by design there isn't going to be much climbing for distance. Basically computes as "flat". Of course, there are those that will complain, but there's ride routes outside of the Katy that will prove them different.

The columns didn't copy. The first one is cumulative ascent, the second is cumulative descent.

You can go here for a graphic illustration of the trails elevation created by mi hermanito.

http://www.bikekatytrail.com/elevations.aspx

Sky, I suspect your data presentation is confusing/misleading. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say:

Start/Finish, total ascent, total descent
Clinton to Lewis - 13.9m, 2.9m
Clinton to Calhoun - 19.8m, 11.3m
Clinton to Windsor - 47.7m, 26.2m
Clinton to Bryson - 75.1m, 29.2m
Clinton to Green Ridge - 81.1m, 37.4m
Clinton to Camp Branch - 83.1, 48m
Clinton to Sedalia - 101.3, 75.1
Clinton to Clifton City - 140, 135
Clinton to Pilot Grove - 208.9, 190.1
Clinton to Prairie Lick - 217.6, 225.1
Clinton to Boonville - 244.2, 256.3

Elevation change??? There is a "little" bit of hill in the Western end of KT, but nothing that should be avoided.

On the mileage chart of this site is an elevation chart you could show them.

That was exactly my point. I had seen some comments on this web site about the hills at the western end and some of the folks in our group asked about them. That is why I included the comparison with the GAP, which we have ridden many times and is also a RR grade, albeit much steeper than the Katy. No Problemo. The only hill of any significance on the GAP is the 23 miles from Cumberland to the Eastern Continental Divide, which gains more than 70 feet per mile.

Paul Toigo: Maybe.

Denbo: Most of the Katy (as most of MO through the center part, I understand there's more serious climbs in the south) is mainly short steep climbs followed by relatively equal descents, which is why I formatted the data the way I did. The numbers I posted above state about 332' of climbing between Clinton and Sedalia (35.6 miles). There are places I can think of where you can hit that number before you reach double-digit mileage. There's very few steady climbs in MO because of the geography (the longest one I'm aware of is 131' over about 0.9 mi), but you can find a few scattered about. Point was, as you state. You'll do more work resisting the limestone on the Katy than you will climbing.

Amen to what Skyguy999 said. Rolling resistance of the limestone is, IMO, the greatest source of resistance on the Katy (and why I like to ride wider tires than most here suggest---700c x 40's that keep me on top). But even the limestone is nothing to complain about, it's just a slower surface than most are accustomed to. I think that as a rule, the Katy surface is easier to ride on than many chip and seal roads.

To that, add that there is usually a level of wind protection (often a great deal of protection) from the vegetation in the railbed, no cars, and no hills: The Katy is my idea of the perfect ride.

Denbo, I'm checking out the GAP & C&O for a ride into DC to meet my wife in late July. Could I ride by myself and stay at hotels & B&Bs along the way without riding for miles off the trail to a hotel the whole way during the busy summer?

DSD, I think you could if that was your priority and you were flexible in how many miles per day you wanted to ride. There are hotels and B&Bs near the trail and I recommend using the appropriate web sites and guide books for details. On our PIT -DCA ride, we stayed at some places that were a few miles from the trail and it was not too much of a problem. We had a support wagon and enough people who were not obsessed with riding every mile to share the driving and used it on a couple occasions to move people and bikes to the hotel or B&B. One thing we did that I would not recommend is taking White's Ferry across the Potomac to stay in Leesburg. That was a mess. If you are riding by yourself, you may need to be able to do some repairs on you bike or be prepared to push it considerable distance on the Towpath. There are some remote sections without cell phone coverage east of Cumberland.

Denbo, I have gone to the similar forum like this one for both trails and I realized the C&O is similar to the towpath canal trails near Chicago (I&M and Hennepin Canal trails) which are pretty unkept for surfaces and isolated for towns and services. I will carry bike tools and provisions but will not have any SAG since my wife will be driving separately to DC. Thanks for the info.

DSD, the good thing about the Towpath is that every mile has a marker and there is never more than 10 miles between a nice campground, with an outhouse, a water pump, a fire ring and a picnic table. The surface is quite a bit different than the GAP and the Katy from what I have seen about the Katy. There is usually lots of deadfall, potholes, roots, rocks and if it rains lots of puddles and mud. It is tough on bikes and people. My brother has had branches break something on his bike twice and we have seen tires take a pounding. In many places the Towpath is just two ruts with grass several inches high in the middle. These ruts will fill with water when it rains. I'm not trying to discourage you, I would do it again, but I want you to be prepared. You might try to match up with someone who is going the same way along the trail for mutual support.

I just remembered to tell you that there is a rock slide closing the trail just east of the Paw Paw Tunnel, requiring a detour. You can walk your bike up what is a hiking trail over the mountain. Is is about a mile and a quarter long, half up half down. This could be a problem with a heavily loaded bike. Check all the web sites for more info.

DSD, If you're planning a C&O and/or GAP trip, be sure to check out BikeCandO.com. It looks and works a lot like this website, with info on both C&O and the GAP. Disclaimer: I run BikeCandO.com, as well as BikeKatyTrail.com.

Happy trails!

DSD, when you check the site Ray mentioned, you will probably see that the final section of the GAP is being completed at this time and will be complete soon, with a grand opening in June. This will allow an easy transition all the way from The Point in Pittsburgh. We were able to do this before the trail completion of this section, because we were traveling with some local people who had knowledge of the area, but that will not be necessary by the time you make the trip. You are traveling at a time when the days will be longer, allowing you flexibility in finding a place to stay near the trail.

I just started planning an autumn ride on the GAP for family and friends and learned that the B&Bs do not want to rent rooms for one night only on weekends from May to the end of October. That will be a problem for a through bike ride if you are traveling on a weekend.

Denbo:

I have ridden the trail end to end, and various parts of it many times. To me there are no "hills" ( I am 63), just gradual changes in elevation in certain sections. The only elevation change that is annoying is heading east from Clifton City to Pilot Grove.

As a follow-up on the C&O comments, I rode it last year after a day-long rain and, yes, the first part out of Cumberland was a muddy mess! The other issue is that the trail is actually quite remote, without all the nice "trail towns" that you find along the GAP. There are few towns convenient to the trail for much of the way, so you will have to plan carefully if you're not camping. And be sure you're able to fix a flat (or two or three) along the way!

Hi everyone,
My husband and I just bought new bikes and got a trailer to pull the kids behind. We are planning on taking them out for maybe an hour to hour and a half ride tomorrow. We are so excited! We won't hit the trail until about 4:00 because he has to work. Can someone please tell me where the best part of the trail would be to do this? We are close to St. Charles, but can drive a bit further if that's a better part of the trail.
Maybe it's all good! I just have no idea. This will be my first Katy experience.

Thanks for your help, everyone.
Sally

We may need more information such as how far do you ride now? 1 hr. or 2 hrs? The construction outside of St. Charles near the bridge maybe choppy. St. Charles to Weldon Springs has some blind crossings. I would go to Defiance since it has a nice trailhead to start and go west to Augusta or Dutzow to get a easy feel for pulling the kids and come back to Defiance. Good start.

Sally, just remember to pad them a little more than you would on pavement, because in a trailer, the Katy is a monotonous rumble with the occasional bump. I know from experience that the Katy will throw up a lot of very fine limestone dust onto/into the trailer, so please seal it up well.

Since you are in Florissant, you might also consider doing one of the many loops over in Madison County (IL), which are mostly asphalt paved.

Well, currently I do spin class one day a week, and run 5 miles 2-3 times/week. But actual bicycling? Well this is new! I'm thinking of knocking out like 20 miles.

I would also recommend the Defiance to Augusta loop. The trail in the St Charles area gets pretty congested on the weekends.

Defiance to Augusta, no question. About 14 miles roundtrip but with a 4 p.m. start you won't want to go much longer. Stop at the Augusta brewery and buy a beer for yourself and a pretzel for the kids, then head back. All good.

Thanks!!!

How did it go Sally? We rode Dutzow to Augusta. Some pretty fierce wind at times but the Katy always makes me happy.

Is it necessary to be clipped onto the pedals to ride the KATY or will conventional athletic shoes/sandals work just as well? I kind of figure there are more frequent dismounts on the trail, than if I were road biking, where I use clipons all the time. Preferences?

I've done many trips using plain pedals both with and without clips & straps. Even a trip or two with clipless pedals.

It's not necessary to be clipped in. I prefer the plain pedals.

I have ridden all over the country, and I never use clip (less) on pedals. However I do recommend some rat cages or a power grips. I also don't wear spandex or biking jerseys.

Last summer my son and I did the whole trail plus another 60 road miles, with plain old pedals and running shoes. But not being a "roadie", maybe I just don't know what I was missing :-)

Started wearing sport sandals mid tour on the Katy a few years ago, that's all I've worn since. Platform pedals w/toe clips and straps and broken in sport sandals, w/socks, works pretty well. With the soft shoulder on the trail, I wouldn't want to be clipped into anything. The cage type allows you to slip your feet out pretty fast.

One of my bikes is a cruiser with big pedals. I have the seat forward and I gently "mash" the pedals whei I (occasionally) ride it. But for the sake of discussion, I'd like to make the case for clipless pedals--that I VASTLY prefer to plain flat pedals.

People have their passions: Mike is bikes. I have the cruiser bike for getting around the neighborhood and walking the dogs. I also have a road, a mountain, and a touring bike. The later 3 are bikes I spend the vast majority of my time on, all my riding time on, and they all have SPD mountian or touring pedals. That means I can use the same shoes for all of them. I also have 2 sets of bike shoes. One set is the traditional type of cleated mountain bike shoes, and the other is a touring shoe that looks like a low rise hiking shoe, but it has the SPD cleat. Both set of shoes are equally comfortable for riding, and both are good enough for walking around (which I try not to do during/after riding).

The reasons I prefer clipless are 1) Clipless allow you to use 2 sets of muscles, which means you not only push but you pull the crank. Two sets of muscles instead of one equals faster, farther, less fatigue, less injruy (esp. patellar tendonitis and knee pain). 2) Safer. I am waaaaay safer if I'm connected to the pedals. Once you get used to clipless, you don't even think about getting in/out, and you can do it faster than getting in/out of a toe cage. 3) Rigid bike shoes are made for pedaling, walking shoes are made for walking, and therefore, walking shoes flex when pedaling and bike shoes don't flex. I dont' like my foot wrapping around the pedal when I ride.

Clipless pedals are more expensive and take some time to master. I will readily admit that they are not for everyone. But they are my preferred choice, and the preferred choice for most avid cyclists.

Hey Don, the KT is a gravel trail. Being clipped in is a personal decision that should be based upon how aggressively you want to ride. If you want to ride quickly, with the most power-v-effeciency, then you need clips. If you are taking a pleasure ride (as I do), then no straps or clips are really needed. So, with this in mind, when are WE JoCo folks heading over to ride KT????

If you are comfortable with clipless pedals, use them. If you think they would be inconvenient, then use platform pedals. There is no reason to worry about using clipless pedals on the trail, although I guess they could be bothersome if the trail is mushy like it would be right now.

Arky and Figs have the bike shoe selection down pretty well. It all depends if you are leisurely then just plain pedals or if you want some speed, then clip less, cages, etc. If you do long miles a day the clip less will as Arky said prevent fatigue. The KT has ruts, branches, uneven loose surfaces and many other problems that have caused me to slip off my pedals. I just use the plastic clips to stay on the pedal and slip in an out of easily.

Shimano makes a dual purpose pedal with a regular platform on one side and Spd (just clip in) pedal on the other side. It's what I use on my touring bike. When I want optimum performance, I use my regular biking shoes and clip in. When it's more casual like when riding around town, I just use my sport sandals on the platform side. Best of both worlds.

I wouldn't ride KT with clips. I just put cages on my standard pedals. You often times need to stop, react quickly or your bike may slide a bit. You don't want to have to get out of a clip in that situation. Pulling out of a cage is much better and quicker.

Good advice here in my opinion. Depends on the length of the rides and the frequency of the stops for me.

Looking for a way to get from St. Charles to Trans AM route at Chester or Murphysboro.

Any suggestions? Thank you.

I don’t know if you are looking for safe, scenic, or just traveling from Missouri-Southern Illinois-Kentucky, but you have several options: 1. Exit the Katy at Marthasville, cross the bridge at Washington and make your way southeast via some treacherous cycling roads to Chester to pick up the Trans Am route. 2. Make your way from St Charles to the Chain-of-Rocks cycling-only bridge across the Mississippi. Take one of the Madison County Bike trails and work east, then south on 2-lanes and county roads towards Murphysboro, IL. 3. Use GoogleMaps-Bike to chose your route then ask specific questions about a section of route on this site. I would choose option 2 and head east to Illinois Rt 4, then south. Good luck, there is no direct route, even be car.

I have never ridden the Mississippi River Trail (MRT) but it may be a decent option for you. A Bing search will get you to the website and map, you can look into the options for either side of the Mississippi, as I believe it shows a route for both Missouri and Illinois. Good luck!

You might try a search of some key words that are relevant to where you want to ride in the Journals on crazyguyonabike dot com. There may be journal entries there by those who have ridden the route.

Also check out the American Discovery Trail. I'm not sure what route it takes, but it uses the Katy Trail in MO (http://www.discoverytrail.org/states/missouri/index.html) and hits Chester in IL (http://www.discoverytrail.org/states/illinois/index.html)

How do you get from the Katy Trail to the Klondike Campground? From the map it appears there is no road. Maybe I need to look at a different map.

Just zoom in on the map a little and you will see it. There is a sign on the trail. The path from the KATY to Klondike Park is paved asphalt and steep uphill from the KATY.

There's also a trail connection to the east, maybe a mile or so out from the main park. It should be well-signed, you can't miss it.

Last year my husband and I rode over Memorial Day Weekend to Boonville during the Peddler's Jamboree. We had a great time and are going to do it again this year. However, this year we are going to get a pet trailer to pull our 2 small dogs in. I know I saw many people last year that took their dogs with them. Does anyone have any tips on biking with your dog? What to pack? Where to stop and eat that might be pet friendly? Any kind of advice is appreciated. Thanks

Best Tip: Leave dog at home where dog belong.

[several posts deleted]OK, we know exactly how "Nowan Poometoes" feels about this subject, and that his post was intended to be humorous, but he strongly feels that pets do not belong on the trail. 'nuff said.I hate playing censor, but when threads turn negative, some people shy away from using the forum entirely, or just dont even come back to this website at all. And your humble webmaster hates to lose website visitors, or leave visitors with a bad taste!Reagardless of how Nowan feels, Tammy is determined to take her dog. So, here are a few past discussions that I found on the subject:Pet link 1
Pet link 2
Pet link 3
Pet link 4Personally I would not take my dog on the trail - she barks at anything that moves, and even stuff that doesn't move. But if your dog is docile enough to ride in a trailer, and you don't let it harass the wildlife or other riders, then more power to you (and your dog).Anyone else have experience with pets on the trail?

I've not had my dog on KT, but I have had him on trails in JoCoKS where I live. He's 75 lbs and a workout, I doubt I would ever pull him in a trailer, on a gravel trail...too much work, no matter how much I love my dog.

Another concern is how my dog affects other riders. Even if a dog is well behaved, quiet and minding it's own business; some people are just nervous riding or walking around dogs. So, by buddy, Jake, would not get to go on KT.

By the way, I'll see ya at Pedaler's Jamboree, and maybe your dogs if they come along.

I used to raise/show dogs so I understand the attachment that some have to their pets. The problem with dogs in public space is generally the owner and not the animal.

What most pet owners do not understand is that not everyone thinks your dog is as cute/smart/funny/etc. that you do. Not everyone wants jumped on/licked/growled at by the cute little thing. And most of us don't like/want any involvement with your dogs stool on or near the trail or trail head.

We were riding the tandem down the hill one morning in Boonville leaving the Hotel Frederick heading west. A guy was walking a dog with a Flexi lead. I announced our approach in ample time. The guy went to the right, the dog went to the left and we were clotheslined by the leash. He claimed he didn't have fair warning we were coming. My response was that his prior warning was in part simple knowledge that he was on a public trail. He should have been more prepared and known not to clothesline someone by letting the dog go one way and him another. It was okay to me that he was walking the dog, but he was a bit of an oblivian thinking they had right to the whole trail.

Take your dog/have fun/be responsible/know that its your dog and that not everyone is as excited as you about them being there.

Thanks for the thoughts. Yes, I know a lot of people are not pet lovers. I totally understand. I don't think it would be safe for the dog to be on a leash with the bike. That does just seem unsafe on so many different levels. My dogs are 14 lbs and LAZY. There is no way they would run. lol. We just thought that since this is going to be an overnight trip and we will be toting some things along with us, it would be ok to bring our dog along this time. I will be sure to keep in mind what you have said though about respecting others (and I am thankfully one of the owners who will "clean up" after my dog).

Thank you for the considerations, and btw, I almost did not look at this forum again, because I was just so disappointed with all of the negativity I was reading. Not only on my own post, but on a lot of others as well.

There will be a temporary closure on the Katy Trail near milepost 51.2 between the Greens Bottom and Weldon Spring trailheads, in St. Charles County. Construction crews working on the new I-64 Daniel Boone Bridge over the Missouri River will be blasting rock on the eastbound side of the bridge on Tuesday, April 2, around 2 p.m. Blasting will also occur on Friday, April 5, or early next week, depending on weather conditions. Flaggers will be on the trail to temporarily stop trail users during the blasting. The delays may last up to 10 minutes at a time.

The blasting work is necessary to build a shared use path that will connect the Katy Trail to the new eastbound bridge on the St. Charles County side. The new bridge is expected to open to traffic in late 2014.

Dawn, and others; caution is advised at the west end of bridge over Synthiana creek by MM111. There is about a 1 foot diameter sink hole in center of the trail right at the end of the bridge.

Doug, thanks for your post. We really appreciate you letting us know about the sinkhole. We'll get staff on that ASAP.