Katy Trail Forum

I'm curious how realistic is it to do end to end and back in 5 days, I'm wanting to use the Labor Day weekend to jump on the road bike at Black Walnut and ride to Clinton and then ride back all in five days, planning on staying in hotels, so I can pack lightly. Any suggestions or comments that would help me out, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Hey Lucas,
From where you live I'm guessing you will start in St. Charles (or St. Louis?). The trail is a pretty fast ride on a skinny tire but it is 240+miles. I rode from Clinton to St. Charles (on a fat tire) in 2.5 but didn't ride back. 86mi from Clinton to Rocheport (where I pitched a tent), 101 mi to Marthasville (where I pitched a tent) and the remaining to St. Charles (where I pitched a tent). It's doable but much of it depends on the heat. Make sure you plan your stay and check for water. Rangers don't like campers. 100 mi day fully loaded in high heat is hard, but doable. I was on the Katy this past weekend. Temps to 103 made it tough. Good luck!
Jharte

A round trip is very realistic if you are a strong rider. But realize that 100 miles on the Katy is not 100 miles on the road, and you'll be doing 5 in a row.

Could I do it? Sure. Would I do it? Probably not. I'd opt for slowing down, enjoying the ride, seeing the sights, and then take the train at least part of the way home. I'd suggest you consider the same and don't rush your Katy experience.

I agree it is very doable. Agree with the comment that 100 on the trail is considerably harder than 100 on the roads. The KATY is about 2-3 mph slower for me than the roads.

Did the one-way version of this the end of June. Clinton to Boonville. Boonville to Rhineland. Rhineland to St. Charles. Used the Comfort Inn in Boonville (as other options closer to the trail were full or too expensive), Dollhouse B&B in Rhineland and Lococo House in St. Charles...returned to KC the next day via Amtrak.

I carried a small handlebar bag, and a pretty small, rear "trunk" pack that set on top of a rear rack that quick released on my seatpost. Worked great. Half the rear bag was taken up by tennis shoes for the evening as I wanted to wear cleated cycling shoes.

Rode a single speed bike and ran 28mm hard case tires with extra flat protection. No flats. No problems. Great trip. Can't wait to do it again.

When I do it again, I will use the 4th day to ride back to Hermann to catch Amtrack in the afternoon. Will be easier than getting to the train in St. Louis.

Good luck with your trip. Sounds like a blast!

In June we rode 227 miles of it in one day from Clinton to St. Charles. It should be doable in 5 depending on fitness. If you have the entire day to ride and check out some of the sites then no problem.

The "one day boys" (mentioned above) passed me between Hartsburg and Rhineland on their way to a one-day crossing. They were working together and hard at it.

I still have openings at my self serve B&b in McKittrick (Joey's Birdhouse mile marker 100.8) on Labor Day weekend. A lot of guests ride from St. Charles in a day and to Hartsburg the next day. I can provide supper and leave you enough snacks for the day.

The one way boys, how many people, when did you leave in the morning and get to the end and average speeds and stopping time?

We had 5 people total with everyone completing the ride. We left Clinton at 5am. Top rider came in right at 15 hours. I was 3 minutes behind him with 15:03. Ride time was 13:19 for me. All the stats are here from my Garmin:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/192284954#.UC0Mn8hdhak.email

Distance: 226.79 mi
Time: 13:19:28
Avg Speed: 17.0 mph
Elevation Gain: 1,365 ft
Calories: 12,688 C
Avg Temperature: 81.0 °F

Time: 13:19:28
Moving Time: 13:18:18
Elapsed Time: 15:03:24
Avg Speed: 17.0 mph
Avg Moving Speed: 17.0 mph
Max Speed: 23.9 mph

Awesome. Thanks for the update and the data. I know others want to "smell the roses" but I think the KATY is "big enough" for all kinds of riders. Congratulations.

Dr. Dover, very cool, thanks for posting. What kind of bike were you on? What was your previous long ride prior to this one? Thanks...

Definitely not the way to "see" the Katy Trail, but a great adventure none the less. We were on cross bikes. Cannondale SuperX and ran 35c slicks at 85 psi. Smooth ride but fast on that surface.

Prior ride 3 weeks earlier was the Dirty Kanza 200. 25 miles shorter, but the ride time was nearly the same. Flint Hills gravel and B roads beat you up unlike the Katy that was smooth and fast.

Data for that race: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/185375118

The Katy was a fun test of endurance. I want to go back with my wife and the tandem to smell the roses in a few places and ride the train back to KC.

Did you paceline it the whole way, or just ride together? 17 mph avg for that long on the Katy is impressive to me. Nice! I've done 150 in a day just for fun, but that was all I wanted solo. I can't imagine doing what you did.

No stops at all? Food? Did you eat and drink on the run the whole way?

Dover, your Dirty Kanza race is really impressive. 15 mph average, wow. A friend of my wife's did it this year and her blog post sounds like agony. I am not a long distance rider (yet) but have ambition to get there. Longest one-day ride is 78 miles on the Katy. I am a bit surprised you rode 35s on the Katy, I might have expected 32s or even 28s.

We had a support vehicle every 30 or so miles. 7 minute stops planned, but we ended up making up a lot of time over what was scheduled so we enjoyed a longer lunch break than planned. We actually got to a point that our lead group was outpacing the second group so we were pinching the support driver just to keep up with all 5 of us.

Each rider had their favorite endurance fuel setup in the van. I kept a feed bag on the bars and snacked the entire ride with nuts, corn nuts, raisins and beef jerky We took time to weigh ourselves each stop to keep track of hydration. Pretty interesting to see body weight changes along the way. Good way to make sure everyone is going to survive too.

The lead group was three. We worked together in a paceline until about mile 165. Then bodies and minds started breaking down and it was each man for himself.

Going back over it on this forum has me thinking that we may need to shoot for the record on the Katy next year. We weren't too far off from what I can tell. Take out some stops,keep the pace a little higher and I think we might be able to pull it off. I guess there is no real official end point other than at Machens. Most record data I have seen shows riders ending up in St. Charles someplace. Hmmmmm......

Dr. Dover,

Great report! Do you have a blog on this? Pictures?

The big tires make perfect sense to me. I ride a rigid steel touring bike with kevlar semi-slick 37's with 80lb of pressure. It allows me to roll over, not plow through the trail.

Sounds to me like an annual gravel grinder/ Dirty Kanza type Katy ride is brewing??????? Hey all you outfitter organizer types out there: Did you get that?? Maybe call it "The Katy Daytripper". Anyone else on board?

To ride the entire length in one day is impressive. I've riden many sections of the trail at different times with a Hybrid and 35's. To keep my bike at an avg of 14 with the chat trail is quite a challenge. The loose chat in the center will slow you drastically, as will the cracks that are in the western section. In July I did one 65 mile stretch with a friend, East of Jeff City near Rhineland and we had 5 flats between us. Seems odd that five of you were able to do the ride with no flats. Did you have special tires that don't go flat?

Like the comments above... it depends on what you want to do. We are in the middle of riding the whole thing. Wanted to get from Clinton to Boonville in one day and could have done it in 13-14 hours, but chose to stop and look at the sights. You could easily average 60-70 and still look at sights if you ride all day.

I spent the night Saturday at the Hotel Bothwell. It is a historic hotel that has been nicely refurbished. Now I know that some want the hermetically sealed, hypo allergenic room that neither light no sound penetrate, but that's not me. My room was small but on a corner in the hotel so I had two windows. As a bonus, they even open if you'd like some fresh air. And, if you enjoy that sort of thing, you can hear a nearby bell tower toll on the hour, and the sound of train whistles blowing in the night. What better way to spend the night after riding an old rail line. The hotel staff loves bikers and doesn't even give you a second glance getting on the elevator with your bike. But, if you prefer, they are willing to store it for you in the basement. They also will hold luggage for the day if you want to drop it off in the morning before you do an out and back and then spend the night with them.

I was there on Saturday as well. I would highly recommend Hotel Bothwell!

I saw in the website that it was a crushed limestone trail and am planning on being in st Charles in a few weeks. Is it road bike friendly because my 650 23s don't do well on unpaved surfaces

Although you MIGHT be able to get by, that is not a combination I would recommend. I have, and know others have, ridden 700x25 but there are too many soft/loose places especially on drop bars. The Katy is well worth bringing a different bike or renting one more suitable to trail conditions.

Thanks Doug I appreciate the advise. Nice to know before I pack a bike for the vaca.

My wife and I ride road bikes on the KATY and the only time we had a problem was in March when the trail thawed.

Be careful of the area just East of Rhineland. Did a 65 mile ride three weeks back in that area, and had 5 flats between two bikes. Lots of small thorns that you will not see until in your tires. The area East of St Charles is the same way. Rode on standard 35's with no special tubes.

I wouldn't do the trail on 23's on a bet. 28 or more. Always ride 32's myself. Those little bitty old tires can get you in trouble in more ways than one. But,, you may be just fine,depending upon weather and other factors.

Skinny tires might work in summer but with leaf fall, walnuts and other litter on the trail currently it would not be advisable. My opinion.

Agree with the above comments. I personally ride 28s, but think 28-32 is just about perfect for the KATY. Even more important to me is FLAT PROTECTION. I DO NOT enjoy changing flats and kevlar belts/hardcase tires are well worth the money on the KATY in my opinion.

I would like to recommend the Down Over Bed and Breakfast in Arrow Rock, a few miles off the Katy Trail. Arrow Rock is a small village chock full of historic, old buildings and site of the Arrow Rock State Historic Site. Many nights, the 19th century Lyceum Theater has live shows. B & B owners Larry and Paula Blevins are very friendly and will pick up riders on the trail at Pilot Grove, Prairie Lick or Boonville. There's also a first class restaurant, the Catalpa, in town.

How is compared to The Fox Creek Inn in Victor?

Glad to hear you're familiar with my neck of the woods. Your question made me look up the Fox Creek Inn on the Internet and it looks very nice but I'm afraid I've never stayed there. The Down Over Bed and Breakfast also has a web site if you want to check it out.

I have a MK&T Train Dispatcher Pocket Watch (21 Jewel, Swiss, 3 adjust, Quartier Freres movement, Gibraltar case, etc.) passed down from my grandfather. He died in 1928, but did work for the KATY for a while (but not sure how when and/or his job). I do not think he was a dispatcher. I am having no luck in getting the "watch" forums to help me with dating the watch. I have many pictures and several other indicators such as serial number, etc. Just looking for information to print off to put into the display case for my heirs. At one time I came across a web site that said employees had an opportunity to buy company watches in 1917, but now I cannot locate that site. Any help would be appreciated. I am told that this is the ONLY remaining personal item that belonged to my grandfather.

The Katy depot in Sedalia has a Railroad/MKT museum in the depot. Have you tried contacting them. They may have contacts who could help you find this info.

Does anyone know where I can safely and hopefully cheaply park a truck and camping trailer for a few days while I ride a few days down the trail?

Katy Roundhouse in New Franklin, Katfish Katy's in Huntsdale, or Cooper's Landing in Easley all have truck/camper accomodations right on the trail.

Sundermeier RV park in St. Charles is right on the trail, though their reviews on google aren't great (train & highway noise).

Yes, Sundermeier RV Park in St. Charles: right on the trail, close to shops, restaurants, etc., and safe...but it's not cheap.

If you are wanting to set up the camper, then I would suggest one of the places mentioned above. If you are wanting to just park the vehicle and camper, then you should be able to do so at one of the trailheads, or check out one of the conservation areas near Rocheport. They have a parking area with free camping, no amenities.

My wife and I stayed at the Cliff Manor Bed and Breakfast Inn in Jefferson City last week. It's just a couple of blocks from the south end of the Missouri River Bridge and sits on top of the bluff with great views of the river. Owner Thom Mace is very friendly and makes you feel at home. We wouldn't hesitate to stay there again.

The Surrey Bike is available for rent!
It seats as few as 2 people and as many as 6! There are 4 separate pedals to help eachother out. Also, on the front of the surrey bike there is a place to accomodate 2 small children, complete with seatbelts for their safety!

You can rent the surrey bike for just $10 per hour or $35 a day

It's something fun to get a group of friends to do or the whole family to join in for a leisurely ride full of laughs and good times!

Tandem (Two-seater) Bike : $7 per hour or $21 a day

One-Seater bicycles :
1 rental = $5 per hour or $15 per day
2 rentals = $4 each per hour or $12 each per day
3 or more rentals = $3 each per hour or $9 each per day
*This offer is only valid with one seater bicycles and do not include the tandem or surrey bike.

can I get a Phone number for KT Caboose so I can reserve a bike or Surrey I cannot find anything other than the address I have been there, and the ice cream and pizza are a wonderful break in the trail!

Can anyone confirm this place still exists? When I was there in July/August(?) they said it was their second to last night being open. Wondering if that was true, as it would be nice for future travelers to know.

Unbfortunately it did close--even the soda machine outside is gone.

Did notice today that the Treloar Bar & Grill has opened behind the old buildings across from the Trailhead.

Thanks Jim! Glad I got there once before they closed!

Not sure what the place is called but it was open Sunday. Rather nondescript but good food and service. You take what the Katy gives you.

Hank, a week ago Sunday there was a temporary sign on a pole facing the trail stating that the "Treloar Bar and Grill" is now open. I'm out that way fairly often and that's the first I noticed it. As you said, not much signage on their building. Don't know if its the same folks that operated the Treloar Bar and Grill before it became the now closed Murph's.

Is the Hart Bistro open?

Maybe someone from Hartsburg could let us know...

yes. I was there on Sunday (sep 23) enjoying a live band on the patio from 5 - 8 PM. It was a big highlight of my Katy Trail trip. They have wifi too.

Yep, we're open. With all of the rumors about Summit Lake Winery going around, I should have addressed this already. We are NOT a part of Summit Lake, and we'll be continuing to do business as normal. We're in the process of changing up the menu and adding more hot choices, and we look forward to serving you through the Fall and Winter. Thanks again for all of your support!

We enjoyed our evening in the town of Hartsburg. We had a nice dinner at the Bistro and we liked the quiet. I liked seeing the pumpkins becoming orange in the fields, and imagine it won't be so quiet soon; but the pumpkin festival must be fun. We had two rooms at the Hartsburg Inn and I was thinking it would be especially nice for a family as it has one large bed and three twins, with plenty of room for bags, etc.

This place is clean, well-priced and right on the trail. We've stayed here probably 5 times and wouldn't go anywhere else. This town is also one of our favorite stops.

Encountered some problems today on the Katy. Had to make an unplanned stop for the night in Sedalia. Hotel Bothwell was extremely nice and accommodating. They gave us a discount for riding the Katy and a coupon for dinner. Walking distance to many places. We ate at Fitters, which had a great selection of food and beer and was reasonably priced. Recommend both!

Friendly ladies with a full service bar who know how to cook! Love the fried catfish! Locals always very friendly to trail riders.

So kind of you 1bush to give us such words. The business will surely pick up now that the word is out to stop here. Keep spreading the good word!

I'm gonna take a guess and say its either the Trailside Bar & Grill in Rhineland or the Riverside Bar & Grill in Portland.

BEST B&B ON THE ENTIRE TRAIL. SUPER BREAKFAST!

Thanks I appreciate that!

I am TOTALLY loving my new Katy Trail bike: It is a Salsa Vaya--basically a drop bar steel touring bike (fairly upright posture, with drop bars) but it has 29er wheels and disc brakes. It came with Schwalbe Mondial 700c x 40 kevlar tires that hold 85# of pressure. No flats so far. The big tires roll easy, and keep me on top and out of ruts, whether loaded or not. I've got 300-400 miles on it on the Katy so far, and I could not be happier. It is a little heavy (28#) but because the Katy is flat, it's not that big of a deal. Highly recommed it, or something like it if you are looking.

Alright! Good for you ArkyKenny! Those are pretty slick bikes, looks, components, and build design.

You are set for touring the Katy Trail or the roads to get to it. Very nice touring bikes, congrats!

Lucky you! This is the bike I want next. I'm trying to justify another bike or at least another frame, but I have a bunch of money in my Niner MCR the last two years. In my mind it's totally justified. In my wife's mind, well that's another story!

MidSouth, it is easier to get forgiveness than permission. Just saying.......

Yep, if you don't ask, they can't say no!

re: what bike to bring next month on Road Scholar trip on the katy. Hybred or is road bike with thinner tires OK? Please respond. We heard there might be nuts of some kind on the trail making bigger tires better in Oct. Is that right or not? Thanks Dick

After logging about 1000 miles on the KATY the last couple years, the overall majority of bikes I have seen are hybrids with 32-38c tires. We ride with 32c or 42c touring tires. I see road bikes from time to time, but very few, and the majority of them don't look to be doing long stretches with gear, mostly training rides.

You will get every answer to your question. The only consensus you will get is that you need Kevlar. I think bigger tires are better (especially if you are carrying a lot of gear) because I like to stay out of the ruts. The surface is hard, so you can run with quite a bit of air pressure, and because it is flat, you don't give up that much speed. So I run 700c x 40 tires. Previously, I rode 26x 1.5 sliicks. Others will tell you to ride 700 x 25 or 28's on your road bike. Think about how you like to ride, think Kevlar (Walmart has strips you can put in if you don't want to buy $90 worth of tires), bring a patch kit and a pump, and have fun

ArkyKenny, what kind of average mph do you get on your Salsa? Those 40s seem fat to me but I understand the upside as well.

I average 14 to 15 mph loaded with about 45 lbs of stuff (including water). I am 48 yo 210 lb 6'2" dude, who rides quite a bit. By comparison, I average about 17 or 18 mph on my road bike with skinny tires on the road. I wouldn't choose the 40's if I was trying to do the whole Katy in one day, but I don't do that. The 40's are perfect for me.

Stayed at Loutre Lane B&B 9-20-12. Very nice accommodations and Luci was a wonderful host. Luci offered transportation to evening meal and fixed a great breakfast. I would highly recommend Loutre Lane if you are looking for a place to stay in Rhineland.

Charming converted post office, and charming hosts, Rich and Joey, made us cyclists feel welcome with their warmth; not to mention a pantryful of extra goodies. :) Thoroughly thought out ammenities, quaint surroundings. Enthusiastic thumbs up!