Katy Trail Forum

I have seen much discussion on having to yield to horses on some parts of the trail. What exactly does yield mean, from both the cyclists and horseowners point of view? Stop bike and get off? Exit the trail completely? Go slow?

By definition.....and I would think it would apply here....to yield means to give the right of way to. Horses have the right of passage...bikes do not. If that requires you stop...get off....exit the trail....go slow....then do so in order that the horses have been given the right to be on their merry way. I've been on psycho horses that would need the whole trail to pass because they just couldn't get past the idea that a bike had an orange flag on it. Other horses could pass thousands of flags and never flinch. Read the situation and allow ample room for the horse(s) to pass....yield.

At the State Natural Area I mentioned earlier in a like thread I didn't elaborate...my apologies. In Texas yielding means stopping, if one needs to get off of the trail then one does, but completely stopping is the base line. Yup, 99 out of a hundred horses may not flinch, its that 100th that's a little twitchy that can cause an issue. The trails in Banderas State Natural Area are plenty wide for one to just stop and leave plenty enough room for the horse to pass by. Enjoy the voyage.......Mark of the Dalton Boys

Not trying to be a stickler, but how far away should the biker stop?

When you see the horse go up on it's hind legs....front feet pawing in the air......you've gone too far.

As Elmer Fudd would say "...stay vehwey, vehwey still." Enjoy the voyage....Mark of the Dalton Boys

Sir I am planing a ride next summer and I am looking at the Katy trail. I will be riding my horse and was thinking what's your opinion was with a horse ride on the Katy Trail. Thank You Dave Moore

Sir I am planing a ride next summer and I am looking at the Katy trail. I will be riding my horse and was thinking what's your opinion was with a horse ride on the Katy Trail. Thank You Dave Moore

My father grew up in Clifton City and my grandmother lived in Clifton her whole life. I would be very interested if someone has painted or taken pictures of the Katy Trail in the Clifton City area. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Our family biked the Katy Trail last weekend and my 13-yr-old son and I would like to return the weekend of the 15th. Rocheport to Jeff City on Saturday and back on Sunday.



I'm assuming I'm too late for B&B's. Are there any hotels - chain or otherwise - someone would recommend with either easy access to the Katy Trail or a shuttle that we could probably reserve at this late date?



Thanks.

Our family biked the Katy Trail last weekend and my 13-yr-old son and I would like to return the weekend of the 15th. Rocheport to Jeff City on Saturday and back on Sunday.



I'm assuming I'm too late for B&B's. Are there any hotels - chain or otherwise - someone would recommend with either easy access to the Katy Trail or a shuttle that we could probably reserve at this late date?



Thanks.

The Ramada Inn, Hotel Deville, and John Q. Hammons Hotel in Jeff City, all at one time had shuttles that would pick you up and take you back to the KATY.

The Ramada Inn, Hotel Deville, and John Q. Hammons Hotel in Jeff City, all at one time had shuttles that would pick you up and take you back to the KATY.

This is the most boring website I have ever been to in my whole entire life! OMG who cares about "Jefferson City-Lodging Recommendations" show an actual video of thhe place or something then maybe more than 3 people would visit it!

This is the most boring website I have ever been to in my whole entire life! OMG who cares about "Jefferson City-Lodging Recommendations" show an actual video of thhe place or something then maybe more than 3 people would visit it!

Jim, it's great to see that you have a 13-year-old that is interested and enjoys the trail. After all, it involves fitness, nostalgia, nature and an appreciation of preservation for future generations. Perhaps when Lindsey (above) is old enough to ride a bike, she will appreciate these things also. It's fun to see how young the little tikes start with computers now days isn't it. Hey Lindsey, I think...like... Sponge Bob is...like...on now. OMG you'd better go and watch. I hear it is really amazing.



P.S. OK Ray, I'll stop now

Jim, it's great to see that you have a 13-year-old that is interested and enjoys the trail. After all, it involves fitness, nostalgia, nature and an appreciation of preservation for future generations. Perhaps when Lindsey (above) is old enough to ride a bike, she will appreciate these things also. It's fun to see how young the little tikes start with computers now days isn't it. Hey Lindsey, I think...like... Sponge Bob is...like...on now. OMG you'd better go and watch. I hear it is really amazing.



P.S. OK Ray, I'll stop now

Webmaster, I will profer my apologies up front.....but when one is from Whitney, TX. there is precious little else to do but critique sites.....Mark Dalton Austin, Texas PS - The Web site is just fine IMHO, informative and most people don't use the full set up of the site, but that's OK too, as cyclists,& conservationists (that's a conservative environmentalist), we should all be here to help.

Webmaster, I will profer my apologies up front.....but when one is from Whitney, TX. there is precious little else to do but critique sites.....Mark Dalton Austin, Texas PS - The Web site is just fine IMHO, informative and most people don't use the full set up of the site, but that's OK too, as cyclists,& conservationists (that's a conservative environmentalist), we should all be here to help.

My son is in Chesterfield for four years and we are planning some trips to Missouri with long weekend excursions from the St. Louis area. I just discovered the Katy Trail and we will definitely come. Where can we bike, fish and have lodging for a long weekend? Boat rental????????

If memory serves Corinth has a very nice skydiving drop zone...a rather significant portion of the trail is alongside of the Missouri River, boat rental, Coopers Landing maybe (which is right on the trail). Also work through the home page on this site and clicking on the towns that the trail goes through have distances to other Missosuri DNR parks that are usually within 5 miles. Also a search on the Missouri Department of Natural Resources will give you a complete listing of parks. Make sure you get a fishing license. Really challenging trout fishing is at Roaring River State Park in the extreme southwest corner of the state and is way away from the KATY, but it is where there is good fishing....enjoy the voyage...Mark of The Dalton Boys

I really like the idea of the Katy Trail however I live on the Missouri River across from Pelican Island and I have been told that the State can take 250 feet of my property to build a continuance of the trail. Is that possible? It seems to me that it would be nice to take the extention over to Pelican Island and then to Suoix Passage Park and continue from there. I already have 150 feet of my property in the River as errosion has taken it over the years. Is this something I need to be concerned with? Thank you for your reply.

Unfortunately the short answer is yes, the state can claim right of eminent domain. The question of which route would be better aside, it is at the very least fortunate that you like the idea of the KATY, and that unlike one poor soul in Connecticut, that state claimed eminent domain to build a shopping mall. The basic premise of eminent domain supposedly manifests to the benefit of the "greater good" a.k.a. hospitals, city parks etc. In the case in the Northeast the state's case managed to mangle the greater good issue in favor of the shopping mall which I personaly don't see. Of course then there is the issue of right of eminent domain in its own right...the state or other government entity taking land from a landowner....sticky issue that. In closing, they can do it, you can fight it, and I'm happy for you that it will be the KATY and not a shopping mall. Regards.......Mark of the Dalton Boys

Another way to avoid the hill climbing out of the park on Marine (which can be very dangerous with inattentive drivers) is to take Creve Coeur Mill Rd from the west side of the park. This will run south to Olive and then east. Olive is commercial in that area, and you would have to cross the 270 overpass just east of the Creve Coeur Mill Rd/Olive intersection, so you should be comfy riding in city traffic and I wouldn't recommend large groups.



To go this route, turn east (right) at the circle when coming off of the Page extension trail into the park. The road directly in front of you is Creve Coeur Mill - turn left on it and ride to Olive. From there, you can follow from step 5 of the first route suggestion once you pass Craig - which is 3 or 4 quick lights past the 270 overpass.

While I've never ridden on this stretch of Olive, IMHO, Olive would be more of a white knuckle ride than Marine. But if Marine scares you, consider what I did last time. As you suggest, take Creve Coeur Mill Rd to the South. It'll turn East then bend to the South again. In the middle of this bend, turn left. (Long story, but I can't describe what this area is.) You will come upon a chain across the road. After you pass the chain, you're on a residental street called Amoit Dr. A long steady uphill, but not as steep or busy as Marine. It will take you to Marine at its crest where it has widened. Make a right on Marine and continue as I posted before under Route Suggestion 4 at:
http://www.bikekatytrail.com/kirkwood.asp
. For an aerial photo of this portion of the ride, see:
http://www.terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=11&Z=15&X=1795&Y=10714&W=3

I would not suggest rush hour for sure ;). It is a reasonable weekend/non-rush route if you ride fast enough and are ok with traffic. I have to say I've almost been nailed on Marine more than Olive - my daily commute is on Marine. I think drivers just get a little lazy on the busy "quiet side streets" like Marine...too many cell phones and stereos.



I have considered the route you describe to get back to where I live from the extension, but have not tried it yet. Is it a worthwhile bypass of the hill on Marine, or would you take your chances climbing the curves with no shoulder?

It depends. Where are you going? What is your mode of transportation? If you're coming from St. Charles County, then yes. It'll add a mile or so, but the grade is about as third as steep (but three times as long) and a very calm route. If your in a car or coming from the north side of the lake, then no. The road is chained off at the bottom of the hill and it adds at least 2 miles to a ride from the north end of the lake. Note, the highest point on Marine and Amoit is 610'and 650', repsectively. You actually ride down to Marine on Amoit.

If you don't like going up Marine Avenue at the hill just outside of the park, then I suggest you walk your bike up the staircase or fire road right next to Marine Avenue. Both will take you up into Creve Couer Memorial park, which will take you to the top of the hill where Marine picks up a sidewalk and a shoulder of sorts.

Are you talking about the trail on the East side of Marine that starts just as Marine enters the trees and goes to (as near as I can tell) Parkland Woods Dr? Then you take Parkland Woods Dr to Dorsett and back West to Marine?

I have been hearing all of this stuff about extending the trail into st.peters and making the trail longer pn both ends. Does anyone have a clue of what it is that they are going to be doing and when all of this will happen?

jared, there is some talk of extending the trail from clinton to kansas city on the west end and from st. charles to machens on the east end. when and if it will happens, only heaven knows. hopefully it will.

To learn about trail work around St. Louis to complete the Great River Greenway (including the St. Peters connection) see - http://greatrivers.info/

Actually the KATY used to end in Machens until some soil/trail composition issues happened and made that last part impassable. So on the east end the trail has gone "to the river". On the west side there are three route proposals largely spearheaded by K.C. rider, and neighborhood entities. All they have now is a group but that is a start. Will it get done soon (1-3 years) maybe not, but at least there is some gumption about it, and in the meantime send an e-mail to the DNR and just tell them simply that you want the KATY to go "end-to-end",or not but exercise your right to express yourself. On the east side the Confluence Trail System has some interesting ideas for continuing on to Illinois via the Chain of Rocks bike/pedestrian bridge. Enjoy the Voyage all.

My dad and i rode the trail oer the summer on touring bikes. The tires on those are very skinny and and tire will work on there. There are some little bumps on the trail but nothing that you wont feel on a mountain bike. The katy trail is normally cleaned up very quickly and whenever they find something wrong they will normally fix it immediatly. When my dad and i rode the trail the first day there was a horrible storm and everything was beeing blown and there were trees all over the trail and we stopped in augusta and they next day the path was fine so they do take very good care of the trail so you will not need to worry about what kind of tires to use. Also if you do take a mountain bike the whole way on the trail you will be very tired because those tires are just so much fatter and it will slow you down alot.

Indeed the great job they do in keeping the trail clean amazes me at times, especially on the western section. Regarding tires, note that a "touring" bike in its true sense has a longer wheelbase and thus a wider chainstay width and will often fit tires up to 42mm in width, which is significant as IMO 700 x 32-38mm tires of the correct type are ideal for the KATY and these will not fit most other bikes with drop bars.They will fit most hybrids. For regular long distance riders/tourers, the narrower tires (25mm or less) seem to be annoyingly vibration and puncture prone. Also, don't discount the use of a MTB. A relatively lightweight hardtail with the proper (narrow) tire choice inflated appropriately makes for a great relative worry-free choice for rides of up to about 50 miles or so.

will my 10 speed thin tire bike be ok to ride on the trail surface?

The trail between St. Charles and Augusta, MO I am familiar with. It is a crushed rock trail. You certainly can ride with thinner tires, I'd make sure that they are new and properly inflated. There are also several points along the way to stop and get help if needed.

You will be fine with that bike of yours my dad and i rode the trail over the summer on our touring bikes and every now and then there are some bumps by i only had one flat tire the whole entire trail and luckily is when we were being rushed for time. But the trail is very nice and we rode it during a huge storm and there were branches all over the trail but the next day it was all cleaned up wich was very nice so that tells you right there they take of the trail very well so everyone can ride and enjoy the great trail.

Make certain your tires are kevlar-belted with a width of at least 25mm but 28mm or wider would be recommended.

We used the Katy Trail Shuttle Service - they took us from St. Charles to Rocheport. They did a great job - they were on time and dependable. I recommend them.

We used the Katy Trail Shuttle Service - they took us from St. Charles to Rocheport. They did a great job - they were on time and dependable. I recommend them.

How much did that shuttle cost?

How much did that shuttle cost?

I've been an avid Rails to Trails rider my whole life. We're in the process of researching retirement areas. A must is to be located on a Trail System, like the Katy Trail.



If you could settle into a quiet, rural surrounding on the Katy Trail, and in close proximity to other bicycling trails where year round riding is available where would you suggest?



We are looking for a few wooded acres to put up a small manufactured home on the trail or adjoining trails that offer the most avialbale miles and scenic diversity while being high & dry.



Can we get this done for under 140K?

Jeff, I too am very close to retirement and the same thought has crossed my mind concerning retiring close to a Rail Trail, Bike Trail etc. First if you haven't done the KATY, you need to, and take your time so as to evaluate all of the small towns along the way. Winter will be dicey for cycling unless you do that already up in Wisconsin. Other trails for year round....Silver Comet/Chief Ladiga in Georgia/Alabama, Pinella Trail in Florida. These are pretty much the "year-round" and longer of the Rail trails....there are others in Mississippi and Louisiana both damaged heavily during Hurricanes Katrina/Rita (which would not be an endorsement by the way in terms of living there). These trails are nice and in the 30-40 mile range. I am looking at the KATY, I've done it, lots of country around, and it goes three quarters of the way across the state of Missouri! It gets chilly in the winter and can get downright am-I-in-Kansas blizzard like but its the exception rather than the rule in terms of heavy snow. Traillink.com lists almost 100% of the trails in the US which has links to world Rail Trails including those in Canada....those Canucks they are ambitious with their Route Verte which is part of their Trans-Canada Cycling route. Enjoy the Voyage....Mark of the Dalton Boys

Retiring near a Rail trail is a great idea and I would like to do so someday also. Great response Dalton Boys as you saved me some typing. Traillink.com is a great resource. I have been on the Pinellas trail and it is an urban trail with a fair number of street crossings. It is also oppressively humid in the summer, worse than here in MO but gorgeous in the late fall/winter/early spring. There are other trails in Florida but they are very flat albeit most are asphalt.If you are close to a retirement age then I would surmise that you would getting close to the age in which you have to think about easy access to medical care also. Columbia MO is a great source of such, having the second highest per capita hospital bed number in the country behind Rochester, MN. So although it may be a bit hot in the mid summer and cold in the winter, a little country place near striking distance of Columbia would be an appealing spot for an avid rail trail person. You could do weekend trips to other trails in IA and NE also.

I'm biased, of course, since I live here, but I would suggest looking into the Columbia area. There are several SMALL towns near Columbia right on the trail (McBaine, Huntsdale, Easley), where I think land would be pretty cheap. Rocheport is farther away, but more of a town. Same with Hartsburg. The spur trail into Columbia from the Katy is a very pleasant ride. Columbia itself already has quite a few miles of beautiful in-town trails, and is well on its way to developing a very good system of interconnected nature trails and bike paths/bike lanes. For information, check out www.pednet.org, or follow the links to the trails portion or the Parks and Rec page at www.gocolumbiamo.com. I ride the trails in Columbia most of the year. There are usually a few very cold weeks, and the trails can become tough riding when we get our one or two big snow or ice storms during the winter. And yes, it is hot and humid in the summer, but you are from the Midwest! You knew that!

....again have to weigh in. Left Columbia in l968 when I joined the service, came back for a couple of years and then moved to Austin, TX. when Austin was like a Columbia on steroids. Since then and a ride down the KATY with my brothers I can say that Columbia has retained that quality that I also would vote to live if looking for a place to move to. I know I will end up back in the Central part of Missouri...s-h-h-h-h don't tell everyone. I would share my thoughts of how Austin has handled growth but I can't bite the hand that has fed, and I remember who "brought me to the dance". enjoy the voyage.......Mark of the Dalton Boys

I've always wondered what was going on in the Austin Area?! My perception is Austin must be one of the most bicycle friendly areas on the planet?



Thanks for all you great replies. For some reason I haven't been able to get down to peddle the Katy. Been to busy peddling around here.



The Columbia Area sounds fantastic, I'll be checking it out.



Thanks again, going to go ride up the Lake with a 35 mph side wind!



Jeff

Jeff - you are sir, an animal to intentionally go out to do a ride in a 35 mph wind going/coming in ANY direction. Your perception is correct to a degree....the city council of Austin would have one believe that they are at, or near the top in terms of being bicycle friendly (what with Lance Armstrong living here most of the year). Austin is a little above average in that category. The cycling community puts out a lot of effort but the growth of this city is burgeoning i.e. out-of control. If you want to live where there is a Home Depot, Wal-Mart, or major grocery store chain at every 3-5 miles within the city limits then Austin, TX. is for you my friend. Of course the average temperature is 80 degrees over the course of a year and that''s attractive, and the one thing to consider is with this growth it brings more people who are driving vehicles. If Wisconsin vehicular law is like Texas, a cyclist has the legal right to "take one''s lane" and like everywhere else in the country that is urban, that makes us full-time cyclists a nuisance at best. Austin does have a very decent trail system and I do not own a car so I am acutely aware of the pluses and minuses, but contrary to some magazine ratings in this regard Austin is a little more hype than reality. As I always say to folks though....check it out yourself...you will be the best judge. Austin is better than most, true, but not as good as its billed and certainly WAY less than its potential. Enjoy the voyage...Mark of the Dalton Boys

I think that downtown st.charles would be a great place because you have they katy trail real close. Then there is the creve couer trail and that is nice because it leads you to the creve couer lake wich is very nice to sit around on hot summer days. St.Charles is a great town with historic homes and such. You have mainstreet which is very nice around christmas but also has some good restaurants.

I live in KC and I am in the initial stages of planning to do the trail next spring. I would like to do east to west. Starting near St Louis and riding to Clinton to be picked up. My plan is for 3 days. ANy advise on the best way to get to St Louis? Bus? Amtrak? Plane? And how to get to trail.



This is my first trek! I plan on doing some one day treks in March and first part of April to work out the bugs.

Karl - I am looking at doing the same thing the opposite way next fall, maybe we can help each other a bit. Get in touch with me via email (carpenter.jason@gmail.com) and lets discuss if you are interested. I could offer transportation in St. Louis, etc... for assistance on the other end.

here is a suggestion ----- drive to Sedeila ---- leave your car there and catch Amtrak to St. Louis (Kirkwood Stationn)---- we will pick you up and bring you to St. Charles Mo. and you spend the night and start out the next day (we are three blocks from the trail)---- you can ride for three days to Sedilia (where your car is ) ---- if we can be of help to you just let us know ---- website www.lococohouse.com

You dont want to go to St Louis. If alone best bet is bus which stops in st charles. Question is will they take your bike. Call and ask them.

My E-mail adress is confusedb247@yahoo.com



I do not suggest riding from st.charles the ride would be much nicer from kansas to st.charles. The reason is that you will be riding into very strong winds all the way to clinton if you start from st.charles. Second after you get to boonville it is all up hill for atleast 30 miles...this hill is not steep it just goes forever. But to answer you question i rode the katy trail from st.charles to clinton and what i did was take a taxi from clinton and they took me to boonville where i caught a greyhound bus that took us home to st.louis. That was the cheapest way we were able to find. There also is suposed to be a shuttle that will take you from one end to the other but i believe it is very expensive.